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Super 2 Cutoff

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#1 Willihammer

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:58 PM

If the Twins call up May and Meyer today and play them through the rest of the season, they will accrue 111 days of service time, is that correct? (last regular season game is on 9/28).

If that's right, then they are probably at least 10 days past the Super 2 cutoff point.

The Super 2 cutoff the past 5 years has been:


  • 2013: 2.122
  • 2012: 2.139
  • 2011: 2.146
  • 2010: 2.122
  • 2009: 2.139

Am I missing something? And if not, what are we waiting for?

#2 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

[FONT=Mercury SSm A]"One source indicates that the Super Two cutoff deadline is likely to be around June 10..."

[/FONT]
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2014/6/3/5776330/cotillos-latest-samardzija-mccarthy-shields-polanco-singleton-trade-mlb-baseball-deadline

The other problem is it seems the Twins FO has their heart set on feting their top prospects at the Futures Game.

#3 zenser

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:19 PM

The other problem is it seems the Twins FO has their heart set on feting their top prospects at the Futures Game.


Hmmm, every fifth day or one Sunday in July? I guess every fifth day seems more appealing to me.

#4 amjgt

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:34 PM

Hmmm, every fifth day or one Sunday in July? I guess every fifth day seems more appealing to me.

Probably one inning in that Sunday in July.

#5 spycake

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:50 PM

The super 2 criteria changed slightly in the most recent CBA, right? I think a few more guys will qualify.

#6 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:01 PM

The super 2 criteria changed slightly in the most recent CBA, right? I think a few more guys will qualify.


It's 22% instead of like 17%, but it's soon. There's really no way to know until the end of the year.

#7 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:03 PM

The other problem is it seems the Twins FO has their heart set on feting their top prospects at the Futures Game.


That's obviously true, but it's certainly not going to come at the expense of the big league club. In other words, the Futures Game is not the reason May or Meyer are not up now, and it won't be the reason in the next few weeks.

#8 Thrylos

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:10 PM

If you DFA Kubel for Morales, you got to Blackburn Correia and bullpen Deduno for Meyer and May, and not to forget Burton for Pino (and service time not an issue here.)

Makes sense, but...
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#9 Tibs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:57 PM

Why isn't the super 2 a set date?
I couldn't be a player because of bad eyesight, so I decided to be an umpire instead.

#10 darin617

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:03 PM

[FONT=Mercury SSm A]"One source indicates that the Super Two cutoff deadline is likely to be around June 10..."

[/FONT]
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2014/6/3/5776330/cotillos-latest-samardzija-mccarthy-shields-polanco-singleton-trade-mlb-baseball-deadline

The other problem is it seems the Twins FO has their heart set on feting their top prospects at the Futures Game.


That is completely wrong. Alex Meyer has already played in a Futures game with the Nationals.

#11 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:17 PM

That is completely wrong. Alex Meyer has already played in a Futures game with the Nationals.


If there is a restriction on the number of appearances a player can make in the Futures game, may I suggest you take up the issue with Terry Ryan, as he's the source of the information I posted?

#12 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:19 PM

That's obviously true, but it's certainly not going to come at the expense of the big league club. In other words, the Futures Game is not the reason May or Meyer are not up now, and it won't be the reason in the next few weeks.


Not sure how you can say that "it's certainly" with certainty.

#13 DuluthFan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

May and Meyer need to remain in AAA until the September roster expansion. These two pitchers need time to learn how to pitch. They do not need to do this at the expense of the major league team. Remember this was a team that wasn't expected to do much this year. Now that they are competitive with the players that they do have, they should be given every opportunity to see how far they can go. May and Meyer will have ample opportunity to earn a spot in the starting rotation next season.

If you prematurely advance these two pitchers that everyone is predicting to be future cornerstones of the rotation, you risk their development and the team's current play. Yes, they could replace Coreia, Deduno or Pelfrey right now. But what happens if you do that and they fail? If Coreia, Deduno and Pelfrey are not around, what would you have left to fall back on, a couple more AAA pitchers in Darnell, Johnson, Pino and Diamond. So you end up calling them up. Your AAA team would then have to call up AA pitchers who may not be ready for AAA. You would be back to where the Twins were the last two years, with no high level pitchers to call upon when injuries decimate the rotation.

Meyer is not even on the 40 man roster yet. He can play all season without needing to be added to the roster. If you wait until next season before adding him you will keep his 3 option years intact.

#14 darin617

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

If there is a restriction on the number of appearances a player can make in the Futures game, may I suggest you take up the issue with Terry Ryan, as he's the source of the information I posted?


The way I see it the Futures Game is a one shot deal. Only a team like the Twins would not promote a player after succeeding throughout the Minors.

#15 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:36 PM

I would never worry about the Super-2 deadline with pitchers. Ever. There's just too much that can happen, both injury-wise and through ineffectiveness. With pitchers I'd care more about that extra year of control (which is basically two starts at the beginning of a career) and leave them in the minors. At this point, though, there shouldn't be anything holding the Twins back from giving them a chance.

But of course, the Twins are consistently saying it's about "consistency".

Personally, pitchers get a finite amount of bullets... and I'd let them fly in the Show.

#16 darin617

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

The Twins maybe need to take a page out of the Yankees old playbook. Just start trading your prospects for established players. If you are not going to reward players for their success swing a deal and get something now and win.

#17 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

The way I see it the Futures Game is a one shot deal. Only a team like the Twins would not promote a player after succeeding throughout the Minors.


Only it's not. And the Twins aren't alone.

If Buxton were healthy and the #1 prospect, you'd be ok with him not playing this year?

#18 Willihammer

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:41 PM

If you prematurely advance these two pitchers that everyone is predicting to be future cornerstones of the rotation, you risk their development and the team's current play. Yes, they could replace Coreia, Deduno or Pelfrey right now. But what happens if you do that and they fail? If Coreia, Deduno and Pelfrey are not around, what would you have left to fall back on, a couple more AAA pitchers in Darnell, Johnson, Pino and Diamond. So you end up calling them up. Your AAA team would then have to call up AA pitchers who may not be ready for AAA. You would be back to where the Twins were the last two years, with no high level pitchers to call upon when injuries decimate the rotation.

[attachment=1633:4884.attach]

#19 Willihammer

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:44 PM

Seriuosly though, you can't play so scared. The Twins aren't going to get the next Cy Young in a deal for Kevin Correia or Sam Deduno anyway.

Meyer and May are 24, they might not ever be more effective than they are now. They've had long MiLB careers, including a dozen or so starts in AAA. They'll be okay

Edited by Willihammer, 09 June 2014 - 09:46 PM.


#20 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:50 PM

Your AAA team would then have to call up AA pitchers who may not be ready for AAA. You would be back to where the Twins were the last two years, with no high level pitchers to call upon when injuries decimate the rotation.


I wouldn't worry too much about that. Gilmartin, Dean and Vasquez could all make the move to AAA. They all played there last year.

In Fort Myers, Jason Wheeler is ready. Matt Tomshaw should move up. D.J. Baxendale has played the part of two season in NB (though he's struggled). There are also a handful of guys in their bullpen - Shibuya, Hermsen, Gruver (not to mention Melotakis and Boer) - that could transition back to that role without digging into CR's rotation (where Slegers could make his move up too).