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Article: Morales Signing Signals Shift in Twins' Mindset

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:01 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...n-Twins-Mindset

#2 nathanaakre

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:32 AM

Love the move - if you can hang around toward the All-Star Break, it probably means Morales is making an impact. If the Twins struggle to get back to .500 or better in the next month or so, he's a veteran that many teams would like to have for a playoff run and we can then turn it into some kind of prospect. I'd say it was a win-win signing for the Twins!

#3 JB_Iowa

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:44 AM

Per Tom Powers:

To me, either you're in or you're out. Ryan and the front office indicated they were in by signing Morales. They will indicate otherwise if the Twins go through the rotation a couple more times with similar results and make no internal moves. The Morales signing fills a vital need but the pitching, overall, remains subpar.

http://www.twincitie...-bolster-roster


I agree with this 100%. We've got to see more changes -- and we've got to see them soon.

#4 troyhobbs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:05 AM

Per Tom Powers:

To me, either you're in or you're out. Ryan and the front office indicated they were in by signing Morales. They will indicate otherwise if the Twins go through the rotation a couple more times with similar results and make no internal moves. The Morales signing fills a vital need but the pitching, overall, remains subpar.

http://www.twincitie...-bolster-roster


I agree with this 100%. We've got to see more changes -- and we've got to see them soon.


I also liked that Tom Powers article. It's great to see the mindset change and the shuffling roster has been entertaining. Still not a huge Twins FO fan but could be swayed by more moves condusive to scrapping useless veterans and winning.

#5 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:16 AM

Per Tom Powers:

To me, either you're in or you're out. Ryan and the front office indicated they were in by signing Morales. They will indicate otherwise if the Twins go through the rotation a couple more times with similar results and make no internal moves. The Morales signing fills a vital need but the pitching, overall, remains subpar.

http://www.twincitie...-bolster-roster


I agree with this 100%. We've got to see more changes -- and we've got to see them soon.


Agreed. This team cannot win with the rotation in its current state. Hopefully the Morales signing is just the beginning of change.

#6 Willihammer

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:20 AM

Super Two deadline is now-ish, right? Meyer and May, get up here. Let's do this. Nobody wants to see Correia vs. the Blue Jays in 2 days...

#7 drivlikejehu

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:38 AM

I don't see any actual evidence their mindset has changed. In the off-season they signed the biggest FA deal in Twins history, and even Hughes' contract was large by their standards. Of course they also punted CF and SS and the back of the rotation.

Same deal as now. Make an uncharacteristic signing, while sticking with Correia and ad libbing in CF. Same mixed bag as before.

#8 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:46 AM

Correct... the Twins have been pretty aggressive in free agency this offseason, but also in the offseason when they very quickly brought in Willingham, Doumit and Carroll. Granted, Nolasco, Hughes and now Morales are certainly more high profile and well compensated, but the Twins have clearly been pushing for awhile.

I'm as big a prospect guy as their is, but this is a good move. Sure, some may want Vargas up, but he's not ready. Morales gets them through this season which is good for Vargas, but also good for the Twins and the fans.

As others have said, more needs to happen. The first move should be Trevor May for Kevin Correia. I'd wait a bit yet on Deduno/Meyer, but no more than a month if 1.) Deduno pitches like yesterday and 2.) Meyer is still on the 80 pitch limit.

But to the point of Nick's article, the idea is win now, and as a long-time Twins fan, that is exciting for me. I love the prospect of prospects, but the big league club is the one I watch and it's been a hard three years. This year has been so much better, so much more competitive.

#9 Forever34

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:47 AM

I'm honestly torn on this one. On the one hand I like that it is only a one year deal for a guy that could be borderline great and that it means the FO is serious about putting a good team together this season. On the other it is a lot of money for a rental on a guy that hasn't been the same since the injury for a team that is a year or two away from being legitimate contenders and who will be taking valuable playing time away from guys who we need to be developed by that time.

#10 spycake

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:48 AM

I don't know if it's really a change in mindset (or at least that sudden of one). They were stalking for bargains with Garza and Ervin Santana late in the offseason, probably were doing the same for Morales and Drew too. That's a welcome step forward, hopefully it continues and we actually start landing some of these guys before June.

The difference this year may have been opportunity -- where in past seasons, the Twins first choice (flier on Kubel and audition for Colabello) could have created a season-long black hole or merry-go-round at the position, this year they actually had the opportunity to sign a replacement in June (thanks, Scott Boras and the current comp system!). If Morales had not been freely available, I doubt the Twins would have made a similar move in trade.

#11 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:51 AM

I don't see any actual evidence their mindset has changed. In the off-season they signed the biggest FA deal in Twins history, and even Hughes' contract was large by their standards. Of course they also punted CF and SS and the back of the rotation.

Same deal as now. Make an uncharacteristic signing, while sticking with Correia and ad libbing in CF. Same mixed bag as before.


It was one move. Morales can't pitch, he can only replace Kubel and the current DH options.

On its own, the Morales signing was pretty exciting... it has nothing to do with any of the rest of those things. And no one, including the Twins, would tell you that it does.

#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:57 AM

If nothing else the Morales signing should be exciting because it's atypical of this team.

#13 tobi0040

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:06 AM

As others have said, more needs to happen. The first move should be Trevor May for Kevin Correia. I'd wait a bit yet on Deduno/Meyer, but no more than a month if 1.) Deduno pitches like yesterday and 2.) Meyer is still on the 80 pitch limit..


How about we bring up May for Kevin C.

Then bring up Meyer and cut a reliever. Deduno goes about 4-5 innings per start. Why not start Meyer every fifth day and give Deduno innings 6-9. The pen gets a rest and our team gets better.

I would rather see Meyer up than May, but if he can only throw 80 pitches, this seems like a good compromise.

#14 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:10 AM

As others have said, more needs to happen. The first move should be Trevor May for Kevin Correia. I'd wait a bit yet on Deduno/Meyer, but no more than a month if 1.) Deduno pitches like yesterday and 2.) Meyer is still on the 80 pitch limit.


Agreed on May/Correia but I'd give Deduno one more start and then evaluate. I like Sam but I see three issues:

1. He pitched well in the pen and can certainly go back to that role

2. He struggles to go deep into games

3. Meyer needs some MLB exposure, particularly if he's on an innings limit

There's nothing stopping this team from bringing up Meyer in 10-12 days, letting him get 8-10 starts, and then giving his spot either back to Sam or bringing up a guy like Johnson to finish out the season.

Lots of options to serve this team's needs in both the short- and long-term.

But really, I'm also okay with Deduno getting several more starts... But Correia needs to go yesterday.

#15 Dantes929

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:20 AM

Darnell, Johnson and Pino have all pitched better than Meyer. At least two are likely to be able to go deeper into games. Why is Meyer on an 80 pitch limit? If they want to keep him on an 80 pitch limit wouldn't it make more sense to bring him up in long relief? I made the argument that keeping Correia could be justified (not to be confused with what I want to happen) if he continued to trend in the right direction. His last start did not go that way and I think he is done if his next start also goes south. What if he throws a Bert Blyleven defined quality start against the Blue Jays?

#16 troyhobbs

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:34 AM

I don't see any actual evidence their mindset has changed. In the off-season they signed the biggest FA deal in Twins history, and even Hughes' contract was large by their standards. Of course they also punted CF and SS and the back of the rotation.

Same deal as now. Make an uncharacteristic signing, while sticking with Correia and ad libbing in CF. Same mixed bag as before.


They signed the biggest FA deal in team history but they had taken $20+ million off the books by cutting bait on Morneau, Blackburn, and Doumit and their needs at pitching were so painfully obvious that the SP signings this off-season were more of a relief than a surprise. The Morales signing is a pretty genuine shocker.

#17 Winston Smith

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:38 AM

It's a good thing to bring in players that are better than what we have. On the other hand there are 11 teams with better records and only 3 with worse records in the AL.

Is it realistic to think this makes them a playoff team I'd say no.

Now if they really really think they are, the thing to do is go get David Price from the Rays. It won't be cheap but if you are really serious about this "win now" approach that move would show it.

#18 wagwan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:41 AM

Darnell, Johnson and Pino have all pitched better than Meyer. At least two are likely to be able to go deeper into games. Why is Meyer on an 80 pitch limit? If they want to keep him on an 80 pitch limit wouldn't it make more sense to bring him up in long relief? I made the argument that keeping Correia could be justified (not to be confused with what I want to happen) if he continued to trend in the right direction. His last start did not go that way and I think he is done if his next start also goes south. What if he throws a Bert Blyleven defined quality start against the Blue Jays?

Does not really matter if those three have pitched better than Meyer. He still has the much higher ceiling. In the end, Meyer will be the force in the rotation. He should get started on that as soon as possible. He is 24.

#19 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:49 AM

3. Meyer needs some MLB exposure, particularly if he's on an innings limit


This is pivotal that the Twins do at some point soon. Gibson (despite some funky home/road splits) has been good this year. We need to give Meyer a taste this year as an investment for next year.

#20 jharaldson

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:03 PM

In my mind you have to praise the Twins for the mindset change here. They very easily could have pocketed this money and trotted Kubel, Parmalee, Colabello, Pinto, ect.... out for DH for the remainder of the season.

#21 Possumlad

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:10 PM

Anyone know why Meyer is on the 80 pitch limit? Hasn't it been ~3 years since a major surgery? We've been referencing the limit, but so far no explanation of why..

#22 drivlikejehu

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:13 PM

It was one move. Morales can't pitch, he can only replace Kubel and the current DH options.

On its own, the Morales signing was pretty exciting... it has nothing to do with any of the rest of those things. And no one, including the Twins, would tell you that it does.


Except that everything is connected. Payroll space used for one player can't be used for another. Prospects traded for one player can't be traded for another. No significant move can be evaluated in a vacuum.

Your post wasn't really responsive to mine anyway - this thread is about a Twins "mindset change." I don't see any evidence of that at all. The Twins have been doing deals like this (and larger obviously) for a couple years now. The timing is unusual due to the draft comp issue, but there is zero indication anything has "changed" for the Twins management.

#23 S.

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:25 PM

I have a hard time caring too much about this move. I'm glad we don't have to watch Kubel anymore, but otherwise I'm hoping we flip Morales for some prospect(s) at the trade deadline. I just hope we don't end up in a scenario where the FO tries to pretend we're serious contenders and decides not to try to sell on any of our veterans that we can potentially get something for.

#24 jay

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:36 PM

there is zero indication anything has "changed" for the Twins management.


I think you're correct in stating that the Twins have been making FA deals for the last couple years. However, it's an awful big simplification to say that signing a slugger at $12M/year in June is the same as $3M for Jim Thome in the offseason. Same can be said about 2 multi-year starting pitchers at >$8M/year compared to Jason Marquis.

What specific moves would qualify for "changed"?

#25 spycake

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:47 PM

In my mind you have to praise the Twins for the mindset change here. They very easily could have pocketed this money and trotted Kubel, Parmalee, Colabello, Pinto, ect.... out for DH for the remainder of the season.


If this is a mindset change move, it was served up to them on a silver platter -- how often do you have a fairly young, healthy quality free agent available for nothing but modest cash in June, at the same time that all of your internal options at the same position have struggled mightily over the season's first two months? I'll give them some credit for spending the money -- just like I did after the Nolasco deal -- but all that's basically saying is they're not epically cheap at the moment!

Although I endorse the Morales signing, if we really want to contend, a better mindset change move might be to avoid a collapse at a position before addressing it.

#26 halfchest

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:52 PM

Except that everything is connected. Payroll space used for one player can't be used for another. Prospects traded for one player can't be traded for another. No significant move can be evaluated in a vacuum.

Your post wasn't really responsive to mine anyway - this thread is about a Twins "mindset change." I don't see any evidence of that at all. The Twins have been doing deals like this (and larger obviously) for a couple years now. The timing is unusual due to the draft comp issue, but there is zero indication anything has "changed" for the Twins management.


I get your point, kind of, but in retrospect what can they do now about CF? Other than trade, if there's something worth trading for. At this time, there's not much out there for FA CF. I think the Morales signing just shows they are willing to go for it this year, at least give it a shot. Now I won't be convinced until they make some corresponding moves within the next week or two which include like many have said, calling up May for Correia. Then either DFA or move him to the pen to replace Burton who's obviously lost what he's had the last couple of years. Then also give Deduno a short leash with Darnell/Meyer/Johnson down in AAA.

So I think the mentality has slowly been shifting towards trying to contend this past year as the prospects get closer and this signing is just further evidence of that shift. If the Twins can keep around or maybe just above .500 I'll be interested to see if they pursue any talent at the deadline.

#27 tobi0040

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:54 PM

Anyone know why Meyer is on the 80 pitch limit? Hasn't it been ~3 years since a major surgery? We've been referencing the limit, but so far no explanation of why..


He was shut down last year and missed about 2 months (at least) due to shoulder soreness. I think he had just over 100 IP between the sumer and winter league.

#28 mike wants wins

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:00 PM

I think it is half an indication....I still don't think they are fully committed one way or the other to win now or complete tear down. But, it seems clear, to me anyway, this is a departure from the past behavior of this team.
Lighten up Francis....

#29 Shane Wahl

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:03 PM

I am a little surprised at the nay-saying going on about this move. Think about the upgrade of Nunez over Bartlett and now Morales over Kubel. These are significant improvements. Trevor May for Correia really should happen immediately. Maybe it will after one more start for each of them.

Worst case scenario the Twins falter and have Morales to trade at the deadline with Willingham, and both could really bring back nice players.

#30 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:11 PM

This is pivotal that the Twins do at some point soon. Gibson (despite some funky home/road splits) has been good this year. We need to give Meyer a taste this year as an investment for next year.



...slowly...inexorably...the mighty leviathan gave way to a positive thought about the prospects for Twins pitching...