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Wait . . . What did Gardy just say?

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#1 minny&paul

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:30 AM

Ron Gardenhire on the future of Kevin Correia, who has arguably been the worst regular starting pitcher in baseball so far this year:


“Kevin’s one of our starters. [He’s] paid good money to do that, and he’s still going to get paid no matter what, so he’s one of our starters,” Gardenhire said. “We need him to be a little more consistent, but he’s one of our starters right now. The guys in Triple-A have had their ups and downs, too. They’ve had some good starts and bad starts, and believe me, we know where they’re at.”

(Emphasis added.)

So instead of paying people because their play dictates it, we have to keep playing people because their pay dictates it.

Side note: In all the games that Kevin Correia has not started, the Twins are 25-21. That’s a .543 winning percentage and translates to 88 wins and a good shot at a wildcard. But Kevin Correia is going “to get paid no matter what,” so let’s keep playing him.

#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

Like I said earlier today...trade deadline. But god do I hope I'm wrong.

#3 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:41 AM

What did you want Gardy to say? "I want Meyer up here but the FO isn't ready for that."? He's towing the company line for now. Correia has a little more rope than Pelfrey but probably not a lot more (interestingly, if you trust fip, Correia has been extremely unlucky this year).

#4 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:41 AM

Embarrassing .......and unjustifiable. Worst starter in the majors, and they have guys dominating AAA, and he stays up here.....ya, they are really trying hard to win this year.
Lighten up Francis....

#5 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:42 AM

I want Gardy to say "we are always evaluating our roster, that's all I really have to say right now on that topic", not to defend the worst starter in the majors. I want accountability, as I've posted here over and over.
Lighten up Francis....

#6 drivlikejehu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:46 AM

If you want accountability, you've come to the wrong place... the Twins organization is completely averse to it, from the top on down.

#7 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:47 AM

How about "Right now he's one of the guys that has been made available to me. Until that changes, he'll start"

#8 minny&paul

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:48 AM

I'd feel better if Gardy said "interestingly, if you trust fip, Correia has been extremely unlucky this year." That would mean that (a) the decision to keep starting him was being made for baseball reasons; and (B) Gardy knows what fip is! That would be better than saying we are stuck with this guy because we pay him a lot.

#9 iTwins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:55 AM

I get that Gardy isn't going to throw Correia under the bus and I don't think I'd want him to (not that I agree with his entire take - but I don't think he should say "Correia sucks, get me someone else" either).

However, his whole "The guys in triple A have ups and downs too" rubs me the wrong way. No one is saying that Meyer, May, Pino - etc. are going to come up and never struggle but evidence is looking pretty good that Correia is more "down" than "up" anymore and the guys in Rochester have shown quality and consistent stuff all year.

Don't disparage the guys in the minors to defend your starter. Most fans are too smart to fall for that and it just comes off as an excuse.

#10 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:58 AM

I want Gardy to say "we are always evaluating our roster, that's all I really have to say right now on that topic", not to defend the worst starter in the majors. I want accountability, as I've posted here over and over.

I guess I think things are being said and planned behind the scenes so I don't particularly care about media comments. I suspect that the FO hopes that Correia can get back on track enough to be a possible trade chip and that they are probably willing to let him make 3-4 more starts to get there.

#11 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:58 AM

I get that Gardy isn't going to throw Correia under the bus and I don't think I'd want him to (not that I agree with his entire take - but I don't think he should say "Correia sucks, get me someone else" either).

However, his whole "The guys in triple A have ups and downs too" rubs me the wrong way. No one is saying that Meyer, May, Pino - etc. are going to come up and never struggle but evidence is looking pretty good that Correia is more "down" than "up" anymore and the guys in Rochester have shown quality and consistent stuff all year.

Don't disparage the guys in the minors to defend your starter. Most fans are too smart to fall for that and it just comes off as an excuse.


Well said. You don't have to expect him to insult Correia, but there is zero reason to mention the AAA guys in the process.

#12 minny&paul

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:58 AM

The thing about Correia is, what version of Kevn Correia are the Twins waiting for? They guy has been a full-time (or almost full-time) starter since 2007. He has never -- repeat -- never had even a league average ERA+ as a starter. He probably has been somewhat unlucky this year, but for seven years he's been below average at his job. That's not luck.

#13 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:00 AM

I guess I think things are being said and planned behind the scenes so I don't particularly care about media comments. I suspect that the FO hopes that Correia can get back on track enough to be a possible trade chip and that they are probably willing to let him make 3-4 more starts to get there.


why worry about getting a prospect ranked worse than 500th in the minors, over winning MLB games right now? Will they ever care about putting the best players on the field?
Lighten up Francis....

#14 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:01 AM

I get that Gardy isn't going to throw Correia under the bus and I don't think I'd want him to (not that I agree with his entire take - but I don't think he should say "Correia sucks, get me someone else" either).

However, his whole "The guys in triple A have ups and downs too" rubs me the wrong way. No one is saying that Meyer, May, Pino - etc. are going to come up and never struggle but evidence is looking pretty good that Correia is more "down" than "up" anymore and the guys in Rochester have shown quality and consistent stuff all year.

Don't disparage the guys in the minors to defend your starter. Most fans are too smart to fall for that and it just comes off as an excuse.

I don't think he's trying to disparage May, for instance. I think he's trying to keep our expectations honest. May has had some really good outings but has had some issues with walks and has been able to get minor league hitters to chase a bit. When he gets up here, he's probably going to get knocked around and sent back down before he figures it out long term. But I think a lot of people see his sub 3.00 era and more strike outs than innings pitched and think he's a front of the rotation starter.

I guess I just don't read his comment the same way as you did.

#15 nicksaviking

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:02 AM

I do hate the implication that Correia has to play because they paid him too much. He's the flipping on field manager, he's supposed to want the best players and not give two #$& about money.

I further am opposed to this line: "The guys in Triple-A have had their ups and downs, too. They’ve had some good starts and bad starts, and believe me, we know where they’re at.”

Is he seriously trying to compare Correia's struggles to minor hiccups May, Meyer, Johnson and Darnell have had?

I agree with the above posters who say Gardy shouldn't be expected to rip Correia in public, however while he's defending him he throws the AAA guys under the bus? What the hell?

Edit: Sorry for the plagiarism iTwins, I promise your post wasn't up when I started typing mine!

Edited by nicksaviking, 06 June 2014 - 09:06 AM.


#16 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:03 AM

I'm not as interested in what Gardy or the front office has to say, as I am in what they do. Actions speak louder than words. We fans can see who is pitching for the Twins each night and we can see how the guys in AAA and AA are doing. It is time for some changes in the starting rotation. As Willihammer said in another thread yesterday: "We are 100% in this thing."

#17 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:07 AM

Clearly, however, the FO does not agree with that stance, that they should be fielding the best players available right now. Or, does the FO believe their prospects would post the worst ERA in all of baseball? If they do belive that, they should probably trade them to orgs that don't believe that. Which is it? Do they really think these four-five pitchers would post the worst ERA in all of baseball, or is there some other reason NONE of them can come up right now? You can't be worried about ruining all of their careers, and all of them needing to work on stuff for the long term, they already have 3-4 starters in the majors, and 3-5 starters in AA/AAA, and 3-5 starters in A ball.....it is ok for some of the AAA guys to come up now, and not wait for PERFECTION....
Lighten up Francis....

#18 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:08 AM

I chalk this up to Gardy being Gardy, defending a struggling vet publicly.

I hope no one in the front office listens.

#19 iTwins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:09 AM

I don't think he's trying to disparage May, for instance. I think he's trying to keep our expectations honest. May has had some really good outings but has had some issues with walks and has been able to get minor league hitters to chase a bit. When he gets up here, he's probably going to get knocked around and sent back down before he figures it out long term. But I think a lot of people see his sub 3.00 era and more strike outs than innings pitched and think he's a front of the rotation starter.


That may be what he's trying to do, but I don't know if it's necessary. I'd like to think most fans know well enough than to expect a rookie to come out of the gate and look like Jose Fernandez. (I'll readily admit, I could be wrong here. I sometimes give other fans credit for being smarter than they really are)

Sure, May or Pino or Darnell could come up and get knocked around, but what exactly is Correia doing right now that's any different? If he wants to stand by Correia - fine. Correia's on his roster, I don't have an issue with the manager backing him up in the media. My issue comes in where the assertion that "the minor guys can struggle too" is a reason to keep mediocore veterans on the roster.

#20 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:10 AM

"mediocre" now means awful? Let's just be honest here, he's awful at his job. Not an awful person, not an awful teammate, but at his job. He's not mediocre.
Lighten up Francis....

#21 cmathewson

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:11 AM

Don't disparage the guys in the minors to defend your starter. Most fans are too smart to fall for that and it just comes off as an excuse.


This. We all know May is on a 26-inning scoreless streak and Johnson is running neck and neck with him. So just give Correia the company line vote of confidence and change the subject already.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#22 Boom Boom

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:14 AM

If Gardy says the reason Correia is staying in the rotation is the money he's making, it almost sounds like he'd make the move if he could but the FO is forcing him to keep running out Correia.

The manager really shouldn't care one way or another about how much money a guy's making. All the manager should worry about is winning games.

#23 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:16 AM

I do hate the implication that Correia has to play because they paid him too much. He's the flipping on field manager, he's supposed to want the best players and not give two #$& about money.

I further am opposed to this line: "The guys in Triple-A have had their ups and downs, too. They’ve had some good starts and bad starts, and believe me, we know where they’re at.”

Is he seriously trying to compare Correia's struggles to minor hiccups May, Meyer, Johnson and Darnell have had?

I agree with the above posters who say Gardy shouldn't be expected to rip Correia in public, however while he's defending him he throws the AAA guys under the bus? What the hell?

Edit: Sorry for the plagiarism iTwins, I promise your post wasn't up when I started typing mine!


Maybe he's giving them long-distance preparation for the big leagues??

#24 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:19 AM

"mediocre" now means awful? Let's just be honest here, he's awful at his job. Not an awful person, not an awful teammate, but at his job. He's not mediocre.


And he's lived the dream as a big league ball player for going on a decade. If he was released this afternoon, he has nothing to hang his head about. (Could and should be said for a half dozen other guys on the 25 man, too.)

#25 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:21 AM

That may be what he's trying to do, but I don't know if it's necessary. I'd like to think most fans know well enough than to expect a rookie to come out of the gate and look like Jose Fernandez. (I'll readily admit, I could be wrong here. I sometimes give other fans credit for being smarter than they really are)

I think fans way overrate prospects in general. Some are worthy of praise - Meyer, Sano, Buxton. But guys like May, Pinto, Darnell, Johnson are not even in most lists of the Twins best 10 prospects and Pinto and Johnson are career journeymen. I like them both (b/c I love all prospects) and hope that Pinto gets up here. But I do think that most fans expectations for any of these guys is out of line with the reality of what will happen - come up, get knocked around, struggle, get sent back down, repeat a few times. If you recall, a few years ago, Dozier was this really intriguing sleeper that a lot of us liked. Then he sucked and we couldn't get rid of him fast enough. Same with Perkins and Plouffe and Parmelee. If you look at our draft threads you see fans comparing prospects to HOFers and vomitting at the thought of having to get another Brad Radke.

Fans love unseen prospects like they love the back up QB.

#26 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:24 AM

I do agree, this is just Gardy being Gardy, shootin' from the hip. It's fun when we're winning and it misfires when losing.

#27 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:26 AM

So the sooner they are up, the sooner they can adjust and contribute, I would think. I do agree that fans over rate prospects, but it it's impossible to be worse than the worst.....

#28 zenser

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:30 AM

Yes the guys in AAA have had ups and downs. Yes Correia has had his ups and downs (mainly downs this year). The difference between the two is that guys in AAA have a future in Minnesota, Correia does not. He is not going to be worth anything more than a broken bat and maybe a scuffed up ball at the deadline so why wait until then?

#29 spycake

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:33 AM

What did you want Gardy to say? "I want Meyer up here but the FO isn't ready for that."? He's towing the company line for now. Correia has a little more rope than Pelfrey but probably not a lot more (interestingly, if you trust fip, Correia has been extremely unlucky this year).


I am sure once Correia's FIP luck evens out, he will be right back to being the career 85 ERA+ starter he was entering the season!

You have to admit, the way Gardy invoked Correia's salary was really weird. "He's paid good money to do that" is a pretty common saying in sports, and can have positive type connotations, but "he's going to get paid no matter what" is a little odd.

#30 slash129

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:38 AM

I further am opposed to this line: "The guys in Triple-A have had their ups and downs, too. They’ve had some good starts and bad starts, and believe me, we know where they’re at.”

Is he seriously trying to compare Correia's struggles to minor hiccups May, Meyer, Johnson and Darnell have had?


To be fair, when Johnson came up for a spot start, he threw 106 pitches in 4.1 innings, walked 6 dudes and gave up four more hits ... He was about as lucky as Correia has been unlucky (not defending Correia in the least) to not give up any runs .... He didn't do the job that needed to be done at the time -- give the bullpen a break. Fortunately, Nolasco came out the next day and went the distance in a loss. I think that gives a little more credibility to Gardy saying ~ we know where they're at.