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Liriano At It Again

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#1 gil4

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:24 AM

Our old friend Francisco Liriano had another one of those games that drives his teams crazy. Here is his line:

[TABLE="class: pitching-stats, width: 475"]
[TR]
[TH="class: team-name, bgcolor: #F1F1F1"]Pittsburgh[/TH]
[TH="class: ip, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]IP[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]H[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]R[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]ER[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]BB[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]SO[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]HR[/TH]
[TH="class: era, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: center"]ERA[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: player-name"]Liriano, F(L, 1-6)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Pirates pitchers combined to throw a one-hitter with 10 K's, but lost 3-2 to the Padres, thanks to nine walks and an error.

#2 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:57 AM

Yeah, Liriano is like that crazy ex. You still really like that weekend you took in Mexico but all that other crap you put up with ...

#3 Willihammer

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:57 AM

Obviously its like Rick Anderson said - after a year the National League will figure out Liriano, stop swinging and just let him walk the runs in.

#4 Linus

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:03 AM

Can we use this as the ultimate proof that the success or failure of player performance is, by far, on the player and not on the coaches? At this point, I am very glad to have received E. Escobar for two months of Frankie's schtick.

#5 gil4

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:57 AM

Yeah, Liriano is like that crazy ex. You still really like that weekend you took in Mexico but all that other crap you put up with ...


But that weekend was SO-O-O-O good... (And the crap is different from, say, Correia's, but is it really worse?)

#6 whydidnt

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:24 AM

Yes, a little maddening, but at the end of the day he gave up 2 earned runs in 5 innings. The way Correia, Pelfry and Nolasco have thrown for the Twins, That would be an improvement. When you compare what the Pirates are paying him to guys like Correia and Pelfry, you still wonder what the Twins were thinking. I'd take his line every time Correia or Pelfry pitch and be quite happy.

#7 Seth Stohs

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:31 AM

What's surprising is that there are so many people who are surprising that Liriano had a good year and followed it up with a bad year (so far)...

#8 LewFordLives

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

I think Liriano is a little more frustrating because his stuff is just so good. Liriano has the talent to mow through opposing lineups, but he either doesn't trust his stuff or can't harnss is big frame. That's what's so frustrating.

#9 Beezer07

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:53 AM

Yes, a little maddening, but at the end of the day he gave up 2 earned runs in 5 innings. The way Correia, Pelfry and Nolasco have thrown for the Twins, That would be an improvement. When you compare what the Pirates are paying him to guys like Correia and Pelfry, you still wonder what the Twins were thinking. I'd take his line every time Correia or Pelfry pitch and be quite happy.


Both Correia and Nolasco had similar lines against the Yankees over the weekend (in terms of allowing a ton of baserunners but few runs) and were rightly criticized.

#10 whydidnt

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:11 AM

I don't know. Last year Correia had a 4.40 FIP and everyone was talking about how good he was. This year Liriano's FIP is 3.91 and everyone thinks he's having a horrible year. I think some have been listening to the Anti-Walk propaganda from Bert and Rick a little too much. I would much rather have Liriano, inconsistency and all, than either Correia or Pelfry, and it's not even close. Especially when you consider he signed for less.

#11 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:24 PM

I don't know. Last year Correia had a 4.40 FIP and everyone was talking about how good he was. This year Liriano's FIP is 3.91 and everyone thinks he's having a horrible year. I think some have been listening to the Anti-Walk propaganda from Bert and Rick a little too much. I would much rather have Liriano, inconsistency and all, than either Correia or Pelfry, and it's not even close. Especially when you consider he signed for less.


On the fip thing, I suspect people are looking at more than one stat to judge him. For instance, Liriano has a negative WAR (again). He's just maddeningly inconsistent. I wasn't kidding about the crazy ex analogy. I was sick of the queasiness from watching him. 2010 was nice and all but 09, 11-12 were gut wrenching. And now he's back to it. I'm just ready to move on.

#12 jorgenswest

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:56 PM

For Liriano, it is all about the slider. Last year it was a great pitch and he threw it often. This year, it has been an average pitch and he has decreased his use slightly. Batters must be laying off it and forcing him to use the fastball or change up to get strikes.

If he can regain the command and dominance of the slider, he will be among the better pitchers. It's Searage's job to help him find that pitch again. No easy task.

#13 TheLeviathan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:14 PM

Liriano's inability to deliver consistent results was my biggest point of contention to a long-term deal for him.

#14 whydidnt

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:16 PM

On the fip thing, I suspect people are looking at more than one stat to judge him. For instance, Liriano has a negative WAR (again). He's just maddeningly inconsistent. I wasn't kidding about the crazy ex analogy. I was sick of the queasiness from watching him. 2010 was nice and all but 09, 11-12 were gut wrenching. And now he's back to it. I'm just ready to move on.


Cant argue with the sentiment. But I will say I don't really like WAR for pitchers , doesn't seem to do a good job of really valuing worth. I get why people were frustrated with Liriano, but the point remains to those trashing his results this year, they are par or better than Correia had last year when there was a lot of love thrown his way, that I didn't get either. I still think large portions of fans have been brainwashed by the commentator and the pitching coach.

#15 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:23 PM

Walks are over dramatized in my book. Six is too many but really, 1 hit and 6 BB is better than 6 hits and 1 BB and no one would even both mentioning that.