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Article: Pinto Needs to Play

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 11:42 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...o-Needs-to-Play

#2 wabene

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:19 AM

I am not a Gardy basher, but there is no logic in this. Once or twice a year, maybe, you get caught without a backup catcher and this does not mean you lose those games. That means odds are very good you suffer zero consequences. Would it be safe to say there WILL be consequences from Pinto missing out on hundreds of at bats? In would say both long and short term consequences. This thickheadedness is Hardy's biggest flaw. Look at the stats man! Don't you want to win? Ugh. We all knew the incredible walk rates would drop and the runs as well. All the more reason put the best sticks in the lineup.

#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:22 AM

I *really* don't want to see Herrmann on the 25 man again.

I think the most logical solution is for Ryan/Antony to tell Gardenhire to get over putting two catchers in the lineup and play Pinto at DH on days he's not catching (not to mention that he should be catching more games).

I'm fine with Suzuki being the "starting catcher" but it's time for Josmil to start getting a few more reps behind the plate.

#4 mini_tb

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:36 AM

Can Pinto play a passable centerfield?

#5 clank2000

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:47 AM

And, umm, hasn't Escobar been deemed an emergency catcher. I realize that there's a strong chance that Suzuki gets run over by a delivery truck at home plate, but what's the worst that could happen? We lose one game.

#6 kdrupp09

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:47 AM

Can Pinto play a passable centerfield?


Why not? They have put everyone else out there. All jokes aside, the Twins need his bat in the line-up, however he is put into it.

#7 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:48 AM

This would be a much easier decision for Gardy if Kurt Suzuki was playing at his career levels and not well above them.
Pinto only plays the one defensive position and Suzuki's YTD triple slash .291/.360/.397 puts his career mark of .254/.312/.376 to shame. The last ten games have been a bit slow for Kurt (just one XBH), but he's been playing really well, and it sounds as though the pitching staff loves him too.

The DH position is "overcrowded," too - it becomes an unpleasant game of Would You Rather:
W.Y.R. play Willingham or Kubel in LF so Pinto can DH? Or W.Y.R. have Pinto Catch and have Suzuki on the Bench so Willingham can DH.

I guess it's really a problem in that defensively there's still a laundry list of deficiencies in the outfield. Players that are better suited to staying off the field entirely are thrust into service out there.

Suzuki and Pinto both have hit well enough to be in the lineup as often as possible, while most of the LF/RF/DH/1B on the team have played below their expected level.

#8 tobi0040

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:08 AM

I *really* don't want to see Herrmann on the 25 man again.

I think the most logical solution is for Ryan/Antony to tell Gardenhire to get over putting two catchers in the lineup and play Pinto at DH on days he's not catching (not to mention that he should be catching more games).

I'm fine with Suzuki being the "starting catcher" but it's time for Josmil to start getting a few more reps behind the plate.


I agree, Herrmann is not a MLB player and should not be back here.

It makes no sense that Kubel has seen 144 AB's, with 1 HR and a .651 OPS, and you have Pinto with 112 AB, 7 HR, and an OPS of .806. Pinto is 25 and learning, Kubel is 32. Put Josh in LF, Parmelee/CC in right, and DH Pinto on the days he is not catching.

If we need to cut Kubel and take away the option from Gardy, maybe that is what we have to do.

Another article idea could be adding up the 3rd catcher, favoring Kubel/Bartlett over players that can help us, the Pinto thing, and determining if Gardy is an asset or a liability.

#9 jokin

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:17 AM

[COLOR=#3E3E3E]#3 – Call up Chris Herrmann to be the backup catcher. I know. He’s been up twice already this year, and he has completely struggled with the bat. However, he can play three outfield positions (and could play first base, too) and be the backup catcher. [/COLOR]


No. No. No.


I *really* don't want to see Herrmann on the 25 man again.

I think the most logical solution is for Ryan/Antony to tell Gardenhire to get over putting two catchers in the lineup and play Pinto at DH on days he's not catching (not to mention that he should be catching more games).

I'm fine with Suzuki being the "starting catcher" but it's time for Josmil to start getting a few more reps behind the plate.


Gardy has reached the point of manic-obsession with his alleged "walk on the wild side" by rostering "only" 2 catchers.

In the post-game presser after the 4-3 walk-off win, one of the very first aspects of the game he commented on and dealt with, was what a "dangerous" thing he'd done by pinch-hitting Pinto for Hicks in the 8th inning and was then left with the prospect of an extra inning game and having Escobar "relieving" Suzuki, literally, as if the Catcher position was identical to Pitcher.

Seriously Gardy, get some help, man! This streak of unwarranted paranoia, coupled with his obsessive love affair and penchant to completely wear out and use up 30-something veterans requires a 13-week therapy regimen. He's had a frightful scare, what with 2 rookies forced onto his team, and he's back to his old ways of finding inventive reasons not to play them, even when it's obvious that they offer the best option in helping obtain wins.

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:21 AM

Seth and I in agreement, as always. This is on Gardy, and, imo, is evidence hee is not the right manager for a rebuilding team.

#11 jokin

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:33 AM

Seth and I in agreement, as always. This is on Gardy, and, imo, is evidence hee is not the right manager for a rebuilding team.


Gardy's latest excuse for playing Zuke 5 of every 6 games was by blaming the situation all on Suzuki.....as apparently, Kurt is constantly browbeating him and winning argument after argument about needing to play every day, much like AJ did back in the day. Yet more evidence to your valid point, Mike.

#12 tobi0040

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:41 AM

Gardy's latest excuse for playing Zuke 5 of every 6 games was by blaming the situation all on Suzuki.....as apparently, Kurt is constantly browbeating him and winning argument after argument about needing to play every day, much like AJ did back in the day. Yet more evidence to your valid point, Mike.


If Gardy is appeasing players, more evidence he doesn't get it. He is supposed to be the one calling the shots. I have also tried making the point that Gardy is not the manager for a team with a bunch of young talent coming up, he shows it every day.

#13 nicksaviking

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:44 AM

I think the most logical solution is for Ryan/Antony to tell Gardenhire to get over putting two catchers in the lineup and play Pinto at DH on days he's not catching (not to mention that he should be catching more games).


This is clearly the solution. This team has given regular at bats to Pedro Florimon and Aaron Hicks this season. Herrmann couldn't hit a softball with a crickett bat, is the .5% chance that the pitcher might have to bat really that much worse of a situation?

Or, you know, you could pinch hit for the pitcher. No rule says he HAS to bat.

#14 mike wants wins

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:53 AM

Mauer chooses to switch positions. Hicks chooses to stop SH. Suzuki chooses when he gets to play. Who is running this ship?
Lighten up Francis....

#15 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:55 AM

Or, you know, you could pinch hit for the pitcher. No rule says he HAS to bat.


That's just it. If a catcher gets injured, the odds are it happens after 4 1/2 innings (the midpoint of the game). That means you play "NL ball" for 4 1/2 innings for a single game.

It's something NL teams do 162 times a season. It's not that hard for an AL team to patch together a string of pinch-hitters for half a friggin' game.

#16 mini_tb

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:56 AM

This really doesn't seem that difficult to sort out, but I think it involves jettisoning some dead weight from the roster. As much as I like Jason Kubel, I am really having a hard time coming up with a single reason why he should take even a single at bat away from any other player on this team going forward. He should be put out to pasture.

Arcia and Pinto should be playing essentially every day. They are a large part of the future. Obviously, you play Arcia in the outfield, and you would probably like to see a 50/50 spilt between Pinto and Suzuki behind the plate with Pinto DH'ing a fair amount in between. Let Suzuki DH some when Pinto is behind the plate if you need his bat in the lineup most games.

So then it comes down to finding playing time for Willingham and Parmelee. I think you play Willingham out in left to see what's left in the tank to try to showcase him for the trade deadline. Parmelee loses ABs for awhile in this situation, but he can fill in as a pinch hitter/4th outfielder/backup 1B/occasional DH. If Willingham can't be dumped at the deadline, then he's performing poorly enough that he can probably be replaced in the lineup by Parmelee anyway.

#17 twinsnorth49

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

Play him at catcher at least 1/3 of the time if not 2/3 of the time and DH him on the days Suzuki starts. Arcia or Hammer can DH on days Pinto starts and Suzuki can sit there with Kubel.

This team does not need Chris Herrmann and should not feel an obligation to Kurt Suzuki at the expense of Pinto's development.

#18 tobi0040

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:04 AM

This really doesn't seem that difficult to sort out, but I think it involves jettisoning some dead weight from the roster. As much as I like Jason Kubel, I am really having a hard time coming up with a single reason why he should take even a single at bat away from any other player on this team going forward. He should be put out to pasture. .


Yes, give Kubel a gold watch and thank him for his contributions. Maybe another watch for his assistance with us getting Tonkin. It would be short-sided to play Kubel on a sub .500 team if he was hitting better than Pinto. But he is not, so this is down-right idiotic.

#19 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:06 AM

That's just it. If a catcher gets injured, the odds are it happens after 4 1/2 innings (the midpoint of the game). That means you play "NL ball" for 4 1/2 innings for a single game.

It's something NL teams do 162 times a season. It's not that hard for an AL team to patch together a string of pinch-hitters for half a friggin' game.


Well, not hard for a team that has a healthy bench.
This year there have been several games in which Gardy basically had one pinch hitter option.
I don't think anyone will argue that The Twins have built a flexible and deep 25 man roster, I *will* argue that it is hard to fix the ship now that it has been run into the ground (see: Bartlett, Guerrier, Kubel, Presley/Mastro/Wilson).
To your point, though, 100% agreement that having to use a pinch hitter every now and then is not a unique problem and Gardy should be a least willing to have that as a possibility.

#20 gmarais66

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:09 AM

That's just it. If a catcher gets injured, the odds are it happens after 4 1/2 innings (the midpoint of the game). That means you play "NL ball" for 4 1/2 innings for a single game.

It's something NL teams do 162 times a season. It's not that hard for an AL team to patch together a string of pinch-hitters for half a friggin' game.


Exactly... You are right on... The worst that could happen is you lose your DH for a part of a game... Now I can see a reluctance to use Pinto as a pinch hitter, where he hits and then is pulled out of the game, but there's no reason not to DH the guy... Get him some consistent at-bats and he WILL produce... The team can't afford to have him sitting...

#21 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:12 AM

I don't understand the Gardy bashing on this.

I think the situation will fix itself soon enough, Kurt is frankly playing well enough to be the everyday catcher, he is taking some really, really good at bats and having him in the lineup every day so far has benefited the Twins.

The DH position is a log jam, I hope Willingham can show some signs of life so they can trade him sooner rather than later, once that happens Pinto is your everday DH (while catching 1-2 times per week as well)
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

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#22 jmlease1

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:16 AM

We seem to be back to the situation we had at the start of the season, where Pinto wasn't playing full-time...only worse? Gah. This is exactly the kind of situation I was afraid of with our roster construction, where we don't have room for a 3rd catcher because of all the pitchers we're toting around and Gardy won't play Pinto and Suzuki together.

I get that Suzuki has been playing really well all year and has earned starts...but Pinto has also played well and deserves starts (and more importantly needs them to develop as our catcher of the future). Sorry, this is a failing of the manager. It's exactly the sort of thing that drives people who watch the team every day completely nuts and national media who loooove Gardy completely miss when they helicopter in every couple of weeks.

#23 tobi0040

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:21 AM

I don't understand the Gardy bashing on this.

I think the situation will fix itself soon enough, Kurt is frankly playing well enough to be the everyday catcher, he is taking some really, really good at bats and having him in the lineup every day so far has benefited the Twins.

The DH position is a log jam, I hope Willingham can show some signs of life so they can trade him sooner rather than later, once that happens Pinto is your everday DH (while catching 1-2 times per week as well)


Whether Josh is traded or not, I don't see Gardy making Pinto the every day DH. And Pinto's OPS is higher than Kurt's.

#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:21 AM

The DH position is a log jam, I hope Willingham can show some signs of life so they can trade him sooner rather than later, once that happens Pinto is your everday DH (while catching 1-2 times per week as well)


The Husk of Josh Willingham should not be logjamming Pinto. That's precisely the problem.

#25 cmathewson

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:22 AM

What Brock is saying. Worst case, you lose the DH and you have to pinch hit for a reliever. No big whoop.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#26 tobi0040

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:25 AM

Exactly... You are right on... The worst that could happen is you lose your DH for a part of a game... Now I can see a reluctance to use Pinto as a pinch hitter, where he hits and then is pulled out of the game, but there's no reason not to DH the guy... Get him some consistent at-bats and he WILL produce... The team can't afford to have him sitting...


Pinto has 7 HR and an .806 OPS in 112 AB. Kubel has 1 HR, .651 OPS in 144 AB. This is costing us runs right now. Giving up runs for sure now is worse than potentially, if the stars and moons align, losing the DH for 1-2 AB.

#27 Boom Boom

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:38 AM

It's a shame how the Twins want Pinto to improve his defense... and don't give him the chance to take any reps there. His reputably bad defense becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

#28 Seth Stohs

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:54 AM

Seth and I in agreement, as always. This is on Gardy, and, imo, is evidence hee is not the right manager for a rebuilding team.


Definitely not in agreement with that.

#29 Seth Stohs

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:55 AM

The DH position is "overcrowded," too - it becomes an unpleasant game of Would You Rather:
W.Y.R. play Willingham or Kubel in LF so Pinto can DH? Or W.Y.R. have Pinto Catch and have Suzuki on the Bench so Willingham can DH.


Obviously throughout a season, and throughout a week, you can mix and match, giving guys days off and alternating the DH on days when Pinto catches. Lots of options. My main point is that he needs to be in the lineup most days.

#30 mike wants wins

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:57 AM

Definitely not in agreement with that.


I knew you would say that......if it isn't evidence (with Bartlett and Guerrier) that he isn't about building for the future, what is it?
Lighten up Francis....