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Next move we make?

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#1 milldaddy35

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:19 AM

What is the next move we make?

#2 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:25 AM

If you're talking trade deadline, I see the Twins trading Correia, maybe Willingham.

Other than that, I predict they stand pat. They want to field a decent team this season but won't sacrifice prospects for a team that isn't *truly* ready to compete... And I'm okay with that.

If you're talking roster shuffling, I see either Willingham or Arcia getting the nod soon, probably at the expense of Chris Herrmann and/or Danny Santana. After that point, Fuld will come back and Colabello will be relieved of what has been a miserable month in Major League Baseball.

#3 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:30 AM

If you're talking trade deadline, I see the Twins trading Correia, maybe Willingham.

Other than that, I predict they stand pat. They want to field a decent team this season but won't sacrifice prospects for a team that isn't *truly* ready to compete... And I'm okay with that.

If you're talking roster shuffling, I see either Willingham or Arcia getting the nod soon, probably at the expense of Chris Herrmann and/or Danny Santana. After that point, Fuld will come back and Colabello will be relieved of what has been a miserable month in Major League Baseball.


And something will have to be done with Pelfrey soon....back to the 13-man pitching staff?

#4 iTwins

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:38 AM

Big league moves: Arcia for Santana, Willingham for Colabello, Fuld for Chris Herrmann (mix and match as you see fit, but I think it's those three up, those three down).

Minor league moves: Trevor May comes up at some point to replace Kevin Correia (after Correia turns in two clunkers). Alex Meyer replaces Mike Pelfrey, if / when Pelfrey shows his velocity is simply gone. (Reports from Rochester had him still throwing 2-3 MPH lower than he should be).

Waiver wire: If the Red Sox cut Sizemore, I'd be interested to see what the Twins do. I could see a case where they'd try to snag the vet and send Hicks to Rochester.

#5 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:47 AM

Big league moves: Arcia for Santana, Willingham for Colabello, Fuld for Chris Herrmann (mix and match as you see fit, but I think it's those three up, those three down).

Minor league moves: Trevor May comes up at some point to replace Kevin Correia (after Correia turns in two clunkers). Alex Meyer replaces Mike Pelfrey, if / when Pelfrey shows his velocity is simply gone. (Reports from Rochester had him still throwing 2-3 MPH lower than he should be).

Waiver wire: If the Red Sox cut Sizemore, I'd be interested to see what the Twins do. I could see a case where they'd try to snag the vet and send Hicks to Rochester.


Brock and I were speculating on that yesterday. It seems almost mandatory that the Twins get this done, it would instantly stop the bleeding in the OF and immediately get guys like Santana and Hicks back on their career paths.

#6 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:52 AM

And something will have to be done with Pelfrey soon....back to the 13-man pitching staff?


Ugh. Let's hope not. If they bring back Pelfrey and he's still throwing 90mph, I'm going to lose my &*^%.

#7 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:53 AM

Brock and I were speculating on that yesterday. It seems almost mandatory that the Twins get this done, it would instantly stop the bleeding in the OF and immediately get guys like Santana and Hicks back on their career paths.


Hard to pull the rug out from under Aaron when he's been playing okay in the past couple of weeks but this team is 23-21. They need to start shoring up weaknesses. Sizemore gives them an outside shot of doing just that while Hicks gets his head straight.

#8 milldaddy35

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:18 AM

Is their talks of them cutting sizemore?

#9 lightfoot789

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:22 AM

I would leave Hicks at the MLB level. We have to decide what is important? He is getting on base at a better clip than half the CFers in baseball yet his average is lower. He has a better OBP than Span and Revere according to article I read on this site the other day. Shouldn't we be happy for those baby steps?

Which is more important BA or OBP and don't say both because those guys aren't floating around for you to just pick up on waiver wire.

#10 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:24 AM

Is their talks of them cutting sizemore?


Yup, it's been recent fodder in the New England media. They do have the option of calling up a prospect and/or making a trade for another OFer by giving up something from their deep minor league system. Plus Sizemore's longevity bonuses start kicking in (similar contract to Kubel), together, it might give the Red Sox just enough motivation to pull the plug.

#11 lightfoot789

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:28 AM

Grady Sizemore's stats - And we want Sizemore over Hicks why again? STOP IT!!!
BA - OBP - SLG - OPS
[TABLE="class: stats_table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: dg-avg"].218--[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-obp"].293--[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-slg"].336[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-ops"]--.629[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-go_ao"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

#12 twinsnorth49

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

I don't see Pelfrey returning to the rotation, Guerrier is the obvious choice to switch with Pelfrey but only if he is able to get his velocity back in the 92-93 range.

Is it possible Pelfrey has a shoulder issue? His drop in velocity is a little puzzling. Get him checked out and figure out a way to get him on the 60 day.

#13 lightfoot789

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

This year an above average OBP - Next year an above average BA - Let the kid learn while we still have a so so team.

#14 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:35 AM

Grady Sizemore's stats - And we want Sizemore over Hicks why again? STOP IT!!!
BA - OBP - SLG - OPS
[TABLE="class: stats_table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: dg-avg"].218--[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-obp"].293--[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-slg"].336[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-ops"]--.629[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-go_ao"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Because he's a quality veteran stop-gap and gives the Twins options for working with Hicks. And, as we discussed in another thread, because Sizemore's deeper hitting numbers reveal more positive indications just below the waterline of his slashline stats....his recent string of bad luck at the plate could very well change for the better, and then you'd have a really cheap placeholder that provides real OF depth that provides some short-term cushion until the cavalry arrive.

#15 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:37 AM

This year an above average OBP - Next year an above average BA - Let the kid learn while we still have a so so team.

'
And there's the rub, where's the best place to learn? Here or AAA? Maybe it's a little bit of both, which is why the move makes sense. Sizemore can sit while Hicks is playing CF for the Twins, or he can take some reps in LF or RF.

#16 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:56 AM

Grady Sizemore's stats - And we want Sizemore over Hicks why again? STOP IT!!!
BA - OBP - SLG - OPS
[TABLE="class: stats_table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: dg-avg"].218--[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-obp"].293--[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-slg"].336[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-ops"]--.629[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-go_ao"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I wanted Hicks to start the season in AAA. When the team decided to make him their CF, I said "meh, okay... give the kid a shot".

He has been really bad. It won't hurt him one bit to flail away at AAA pitching for a month in hopes that he finds his groove... A groove he hasn't seen since August of 2012.

Think about that for a moment. August of 2012.

This isn't about Sizemore. This is about Aaron Hicks. The Twins just need Sizemore to tread Hicksian water for a month or two while Aaron gets his head straight.

#17 iTwins

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:18 AM

This isn't about Sizemore. This is about Aaron Hicks. The Twins just need Sizemore to tread Hicksian water for a month or two while Aaron gets his head straight.



Exactly. It's just a matter of depth. Sizemore will let Hicks get at bats in AAA, which it looks like he could certainly use.

I'm all for the Twins grabbing the first veteran CF who hits waivers - I mentioned Sizemore simply because it looks like he may be the first one to come available.

#18 tobi0040

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:19 AM

Grady Sizemore's stats - And we want Sizemore over Hicks why again? STOP IT!!!
BA - OBP - SLG - OPS
[TABLE="class: stats_table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: dg-avg"].218--
[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-obp"].293--
[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-slg"].336
[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-ops"]--.629
[/TD]
[TD="class: dg-go_ao"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I don't get it. Sizemore is almost 32, never stays healthy and is not really an upgrade over Hicks right now.

Over the last 10 games, Hicks is hitting .241 with 6 BB. In the last 7 days (six games), he is hitting .357, on base .500, OPS .833. I get this is a limited sample size, but he needs confidence at this level and he is on a little roll. It would be a terrible time and long term move to replace him with Grady.

#19 TKGuy

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:24 AM

I think Arcia comes up Monday for Hermann, need to keep Santana as backup INF and CF or a little while longer.

#20 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:26 AM

I don't get it. Sizemore is almost 32, never stays healthy and is not really an upgrade over Hicks right now.

Over the last 10 games, Hicks is hitting .241 with 6 BB. In the last 7 days (six games), he is hitting .357, on base .500, OPS .833. I get this is a limited sample size, but he needs confidence at this level and he is on a little roll. It would be a terrible time and long term move to replace him with Grady.


The Twins can have both if Sizemore is released soon. They wouldn't have to worry about the roster until Fuld is ready to return (and they can delay that by a few weeks with rehab assignments).

That gives them plenty of time to evaluate Hicks and see if he has truly turned the corner or whether this is another blip in a miserable season for Aaron.

#21 tobi0040

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:36 AM

The Twins can have both if Sizemore is released soon. They wouldn't have to worry about the roster until Fuld is ready to return (and they can delay that by a few weeks with rehab assignments).

That gives them plenty of time to evaluate Hicks and see if he has truly turned the corner or whether this is another blip in a miserable season for Aaron.


We are just on a different page I guess. We will not know if Hicks has turned the corner or if he is going to have a miserable season in a few weeks. What I can confidently say is that Hicks doesn't need to improve much to be the same player now as Fuld or a 32 year old Grady Sizemore. Neither of those two guys is on this team when we are good again.

#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:39 AM

We are just on a different page I guess. We will not know if Hicks has turned the corner or if he is going to have a miserable season in a few weeks. What I can confidently say is that Hicks doesn't need to improve much to be the same player now as Fuld or a 32 year old Grady Sizemore. Neither of those two guys is on this team when we are good again.


I'd agree if the Twins were 19-25. I think it's better in the short term to pick up Sizemore and better in the long term for Aaron if he spends some time in Rochester.

I think Sizemore would be a good get if only as a bench bat. He might be cooked but there's a chance he can shore up a team weakness, too.

And I'd like to see Hicks in Minnesota again this season.

#23 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:39 AM

I don't get it. Sizemore is almost 32, never stays healthy and is not really an upgrade over Hicks right now.

Over the last 10 games, Hicks is hitting .241 with 6 BB. In the last 7 days (six games), he is hitting .357, on base .500, OPS .833. I get this is a limited sample size, but he needs confidence at this level and he is on a little roll. It would be a terrible time and long term move to replace him with Grady.


Over the last 7 days, Hicks is batting .357.....in all of 16 Plate Appearances....

I don't think anyone is saying "replace him with Grady." And this is not an issue about upgrades, it's about what's the best for the team, as well as for Hicks, individually.

Sizemore possibly coming in is not a long-term move, merely a shoring up of a glaring lack of CF depth with a veteran presence, who doesn't have to play if Hicks is here, and can competently man the position if it's deemed that Hicks needs to decompress at AAA. Sizemore is blocking no one and could be cut without cost at any moment, or perhaps be a steal as a 4th OF, and even a trade chip if moved at the proper time.

You talked about terrible long-term moves, but used extremely short-term stats to try to prove your point. The most important aspect of this whole situation, and really the crux of the matter, is making a fully-informed decision on Hicks.....clearly, having all possible means with which to make that decision must include the AAA option, as it has for many Twins players in the past.

Edited by jokin, 23 May 2014 - 09:42 AM.


#24 cmathewson

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:41 AM

I don't get it. Sizemore is almost 32, never stays healthy and is not really an upgrade over Hicks right now.

Over the last 10 games, Hicks is hitting .241 with 6 BB. In the last 7 days (six games), he is hitting .357, on base .500, OPS .833. I get this is a limited sample size, but he needs confidence at this level and he is on a little roll. It would be a terrible time and long term move to replace him with Grady.


This. I see Sizemore as an upgrade over Fuld: a fourth outfielder. Hicks seems to be turning a corner. We need to find out if he's a major leaguer. The place to find that out is in the major leagues. If he regresses again, by all means, send him down to work on specific things. But now is not the time.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#25 tobi0040

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:42 AM

better in the long term for Aaron if he spends some time in Rochester. .


I don't neccesarily agree with this, but it is a line of thought I can respect. I think he needs confidence up here though. I don't have the answer and I can't say I am 100% right. It varies from player to player. My personal opinion is that it has been something between the ears with Hicks when he steps onto the MLB field and that will only be overcome through success at this level.

#26 Brandon

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:44 AM

I think Sizemore would be the 4th OF and if Hicks goes into another prolonged slump then he can take over while Hicks goes down. I think the Twins will want to see Hicks play a while to see if he has turned the corner with his current hot streak. I don't remember Hicks having hot streaks so he may be on to something.

#27 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:44 AM

I don't neccesarily agree with this, but it is a line of thought I can respect. I think he needs confidence up here though. I don't have the answer and I can't say I am 100% right. It varies from player to player. My personal opinion is that it has been something between the ears with Hicks when he steps onto the MLB field and that will only be overcome through success at this level.


Again, his success at this level may still go through Rochester, and it doesn't hurt to have that option available.

#28 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:46 AM

This. I see Sizemore as an upgrade over Fuld: a fourth outfielder. Hicks seems to be turning a corner. We need to find out if he's a major leaguer. The place to find that out is in the major leagues. If he regresses again, by all means, send him down to work on specific things. But now is not the time.


If? More like "When". And the point is moot until Grady actually becomes available, if ever.

#29 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:48 AM

I don't neccesarily agree with this, but it is a line of thought I can respect. I think he needs confidence up here though. I don't have the answer and I can't say I am 100% right. It varies from player to player. My personal opinion is that it has been something between the ears with Hicks when he steps onto the MLB field and that will only be overcome through success at this level.


It's not an easy decision. Demoting him could be the wrong move but I tend to lean the other direction.

#30 tobi0040

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:53 AM

It's not an easy decision. Demoting him could be the wrong move but I tend to lean the other direction.


One of the main reasons was Hicks did not respond well last year when he was sent down. I think it hurt his confidence more. We will see but we may never know the counter-factual.