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Moustakas demoted

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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:32 PM

KC sent Moustakas to AAA. After his 2010 minor league season - where as a 21 year old he crushed AA/AAA to a line of .322/.369/.630 despite being at least 3 years younger than the league avg - he was ranked the #9 prospect in baseball. He didn't even seem to have too much issues with plate discipline in the minors. And even as a MLer, his k/bb ratios haven't been horrible. But he has been horrible in the bigs.

Edited by gunnarthor, 22 May 2014 - 01:34 PM.


#2 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:36 PM

Wow. Baseball is hard to play, and even harder to predict.

#3 JB_Iowa

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:38 PM

I was going to comment in the Hicks thread about what happens when Buxton comes up and struggles (as he invariably will at some point) -- and what will the comments be.

Always good to keep in mind that fortunes and futures can sometimes change very quickly.

#4 drock2190

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:41 PM

Probably the next Alex Gordon. Takes awhile for him to be productive in the major leagues.

#5 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:49 PM

Yikes. A good reminder that even the best prospects sometimes fail.

REMEMBER DELMON YOUNG.

*holds up a kosher candle*

#6 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:54 PM

Yikes. A good reminder that even the best prospects sometimes fail.

REMEMBER DELMON YOUNG.

*holds up a kosher candle*


But with Delmon, at least in hindsight, you can see the plate discipline problem (same w/Frenchy and many, many others). Moose didn't seem to have that. Just plain can't hit.

#7 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:06 PM

Moose just can't seem to hit and all he did for his entire minor league career is go Ruth on the competition. It should be a sobering reminder.

#8 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:10 PM

But with Delmon, at least in hindsight, you can see the plate discipline problem (same w/Frenchy and many, many others). Moose didn't seem to have that. Just plain can't hit.


Absolutely. I just enjoy taking swipes at Delmon.

#9 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:12 PM

Moose just can't seem to hit and all he did for his entire minor league career is go Ruth on the competition. It should be a sobering reminder.


It should also be a sobering reminder to Dayton Moore why you don't trade for the "final piece" when you're not sure your foundation is solid.

#10 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:17 PM

It should also be a sobering reminder to Dayton Moore why you don't trade for the "final piece" when you're not sure your foundation is solid.


That's fair, but he did the same thing many Twins fans are doing. Sometimes you have to hope, otherwise what's the point of trying at all?

To me it's more of a message about "best laid plans" and whatnot. (And hell, it's not like what he gave up is rubbing it in every day either)

#11 JB_Iowa

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:34 PM

And on shifting fortunes ....

It sounds like what is bad for Moustakas may be good for Danny Valencia.

#12 big dog

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:52 PM

The question is, will Danny Valencia be good for Danny Valencia?

#13 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:02 PM

It should also be a sobering reminder to Dayton Moore why you don't trade for the "final piece" when you're not sure your foundation is solid.


DISAGREE. It should be a reminder, imo, of why should you try to acquire more sure things like veterans still in their prime, and not always bet on prospects. What if they had, instead, dealt Mous for a legit MLB player? Should you trade/DFA every player in the minors to get better in 1 year? No. Should you always wait for the future to perfectly align and not deal prospects? no.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#14 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:21 PM

DISAGREE. It should be a reminder, imo, of why should you try to acquire more sure things like veterans still in their prime, and not always bet on prospects. What if they had, instead, dealt Mous for a legit MLB player? Should you trade/DFA every player in the minors to get better in 1 year? No. Should you always wait for the future to perfectly align and not deal prospects? no.


They'd be better positioned to win in the long term with Myers on the roster right now.

That's why you collect prospects like Pokemon, not flip them for vets on a rebuilding team. Some of those prospects will inevitably fail but it's almost impossible to predict which ones will falter and which will thrive.

Safety in numbers. The Royals (and most other teams) cannot afford five Shields on the roster. They need to succeed through internal prospect success.

#15 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:35 PM

Danny Valencia's putting up terrific numbers so far with the Royals... of course, that is in large part because he's only playing against left-handed pitching, which he has always destroyed. But good for him. I hope he does great!

#16 drivlikejehu

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

Moose just can't seem to hit and all he did for his entire minor league career is go Ruth on the competition. It should be a sobering reminder.


That's not all he did during his minor league career. It's more like something he rarely did. His first full season in A-ball was solid enough given his age, but nothing special. And in his 2nd year, at Hi-A, he hit .250/.297/.421 in a full season, which is really awful.

He started 2010 with a monster half-season at AA, that combined with his high draft position and tools caused his stock to soar through the roof. But that didn't really translate to AAA, with a 114 RC+ in 2010 and then 105 in 2011.

He never took many walks, and his lack of pitch selectivity doomed him against MLB pitchers.

#17 Willihammer

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 08:40 PM

That's why you collect prospects like Pokemon, not flip them for vets on a rebuilding team. Some of those prospects will inevitably fail but it's almost impossible to predict which ones will falter and which will thrive.


That's just it. The Royals traded a wildcard for not one, but two proven commodities (I dont' know why everyone forgets about Wade Davis - currently sporting a 16.8 K/9 out of the pen).

That's 5 years of combined team control - 2 for a fringe ace and a workhorse, and 3 for a fringe starter but a bullpen stud. The Rays got 7 years control for a question mark who is currently batting .684.

If anything, I think your Pokemon theory applies more specifically to pitching - just look at the Rays. How badly could they use Shields and Davis now? Cornoer OFers OTOH are the most fungible commodities in baseball.

#18 big dog

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 08:58 PM

Danny Valencia's putting up terrific numbers so far with the Royals... of course, that is in large part because he's only playing against left-handed pitching, which he has always destroyed. But good for him. I hope he does great!


Agreed- my reasoning is the same as yours. Will his current success translate to a full-time role (if the Royals use him that way)? He's the one who will decide that, in effect.

#19 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 09:10 PM

It should also be a sobering reminder to Dayton Moore why you don't trade for the "final piece" when you're not sure your foundation is solid.

As MWW alluded to above, I look at it more as a sobering reminder that pinning your hopes on prospects--even consensus top 10 ones as Mous was after 2010--is a risky way to build that foundation.

#20 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 09:54 PM

When I've seen Moose hit. I always thought to myself that he was shooting himself in the foot. He seemed like he was trying to be a Pablo Sandoval clone. The guy would swing at anything. Panda got away with bad ball hitting for awhile but that has been catching up with him lately but Moose just didn't seem to have that skill ever.

He'd make contact quite a bit with the bad balls... Yet everything he hit seemed to go straight up. Panda could straighten out a ball at eye level... Moose not so much.

The Panda beats the Moose.