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Berardino: Antony/Gardy on Aaron Hicks

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#41 LaBombo

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:10 PM

Yup. As I've said for the last 8 months, I think the Twins got past the point of caring by the time around the first Hicks demotion last summer- to me, he's now viewed as a short-timer in the Twins long-range planning.


A year ago, Ryan had this to say about the decision to promote Hicks:


The guy has earned it. I find it almost humorous that people are talking about service time, starting the clock. We didn't trade Span and Revere to stall the next guy. ... I can't ever feel guilt about stopping a guy that deserves to be there because I know if I put myself in that man's shoes, I would be severely disappointed.

Are we trying to win, or what are we doing? Can you imagine if we sent somebody out that did what the kid did, and I had to look at Willingham and Morneau and Perkins and Mauer and those guys that are trying to win, and I'm going to stop that guy? I just don't believe in that. I hear this stuff. Not here.


Even with the questionable concerns about players' feelings set aside, this was a puzzling stance to hold even before the Hick's Hindenburg-esque 2013 season started.

At any rate, the point is that in about a year or so, Aaron Hicks has gone from inspiring his GM to publicly throw the concept of his service time out the window to playing so poorly that there is very little fan base concern about how long Hicks is a Twin or how much he will cost. That has to be tough on him.

Edited by LaBombo, 16 May 2014 - 06:17 PM.


#42 Shane Wahl

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:11 PM

Maybe there wasn't a rush to refute this statement because it came late on Friday afternoon.

Or maybe it's because Antony's body of work, dating back to his commendable yet regrettable decision to attempt to discuss advance metrics four years ago, has caused concern even among the fans most likely to give the front office the benefit of the doubt.

The latter gets my vote after this latest Hicks outburst.


Indeed. Ownership that cared about baseball wouldn't tolerate continued jabberings from the front office like this. To think . . . this guy is going to be the real GM whenever TR actually resigns.

#43 Thrylos

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:16 PM

Indeed. Ownership that cared about baseball wouldn't tolerate continued jabberings from the front office like this. To think . . . this guy is going to be the real GM whenever TR actually resigns.


retires...
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#44 LaBombo

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:22 PM

retires...

... or moves to consultant/guru/centurion/consigliere position.

#45 cmathewson

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:23 PM

A year ago, Ryan had this to say about the decision to promote Hicks:


The guy has earned it. I find it almost humorous that people are talking about service time, starting the clock. We didn't trade Span and Revere to stall the next guy. ... I can't ever feel guilt about stopping a guy that deserves to be there because I know if I put myself in that man's shoes, I would be severely disappointed.

Are we trying to win, or what are we doing? Can you imagine if we sent somebody out that did what the kid did, and I had to look at Willingham and Morneau and Perkins and Mauer and those guys that are trying to win, and I'm going to stop that guy? I just don't believe in that. I hear this stuff. Not here.


Even with the questionable concerns about players' feelings set aside, this was a puzzling stance to hold even before the Hick's Hindenburg-esque 2013 season started.

At any rate, the point is that in about a year or so, Aaron Hicks has gone from inspiring his GM to publicly throw the concept of his service time out the window to playing so poorly that there is very little fan base concern about how long Hicks is a Twin or how much he will cost. That has to be tough on him.


Different GMs. One has an idea about how guys learn and develop. The other is clueless.
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#46 Thrylos

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:24 PM

Sounds an awful lot like my favorite process matrix, simple as it may be.


Posted Image


I like this. So the Twins the last 20 some years were hovering between Dumb Luck and Poetic Justice. Beats the Rock and the Hard Place...

Edited by Thrylos, 16 May 2014 - 06:58 PM.

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#47 LaBombo

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:32 PM

Different GMs. One has an idea about how guys learn and develop. The other is clueless.

Agree. The Ryan quote was intended to show how far Hicks' stock has dropped. Hard to believe that he's been in their system this long and now effort is suddenly an issue to Antony.

#48 cmathewson

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:35 PM

Indeed. Ownership that cared about baseball wouldn't tolerate continued jabberings from the front office like this. To think . . . this guy is going to be the real GM whenever TR actually resigns.


We're talking about the guy who recommended Mike Lamb; presided over the Delmon Young, Matt Capps and Jim Hoey trades and the Tsuioshi Nishioka signing; strongly recommended the signing of Nick Blackburn to a long-term contract when he had pitched for two years at just above replacement level; and shown no regard for center field depth in his time as acting GM, botching two easy decisions. He's in over his head. Either Ryan comes back at full strength or they should put a baseball man in charge. Rob Antony is no baseball man.
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#49 JB_Iowa

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:37 PM

I've had my problems with Ryan (mostly because I think it is time for a changing of the guard -- well, really a changing of the platoon) but I have been impressed by recent comments from players about his conversations with them when they are sent down and by their respect for the way he treats them.

I wonder if they would say the same thing about Rob Antony?

#50 Sconnie

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 09:20 PM

Should he know better? A guy hired as a marketing intern, not the first time he spoke out of turn, Antony's learning curve is lot longer than Hicks's

He's been Assistant GM since 2007, I should hope there has been some coaching by TR along the way

#51 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:25 AM

Since the public scolding, Hicks is 3-8 with 1BB and 1K.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few days.

#52 stringer bell

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:43 AM

Since the public scolding, Hicks is 3-8 with 1BB and 1K.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few days.

It sounds like Hicks will have at least a week to show he's turned it around. Fuld had a setback Wednesday and is at least a week away from playing. He probably would need to tune up in Rochester for a couple more days before playing.

#53 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:39 AM

It sounds like Hicks will have at least a week to show he's turned it around. Fuld had a setback Wednesday and is at least a week away from playing. He probably would need to tune up in Rochester for a couple more days before playing.


Yep. He'll get his chance to redeem himself.

I'm not a fan of publicly calling out players but maybe the front office felt this was a last resort. Dunno how to feel about it, really.

I guess it all boils down to results. If this turns Hicks around, it was a smart move. If he continues to flounder, it put undue stress and embarrassment on a young player. Time will tell.

The statement that immediately chapped me the most was Gardy's comment about not wanting to send down Florimon. COME ON. He obviously didn't belong on the roster.

#54 jokin

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:53 AM

He's been Assistant GM since 2007, I should hope there has been some coaching by TR along the way


I'm sure there has undoubtedly been quite a bit of mentoring by TR along the way. Recent results seem to suggest he's still not quite ready for prime time, and given it's been 7 years now, (having never been a fan of Antony) I remain unconvinced he ever will be. I would hope that the owner is engaged enough to demand that his management team review this apparent fait accompli decision of succession and consider alternatives, from job descriptions that involve Antony in some GM capacity with limited direct portfolio, all the way to a clean sweep of the current management team.

#55 Shane Wahl

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:58 AM

How would we ever know if this ridiculous public display is what caused Hicks to start performing better. This that walk-off single might have had just as much if not more influence.

#56 jokin

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:59 AM

Yep. He'll get his chance to redeem himself.

I'm not a fan of publicly calling out players but maybe the front office felt this was a last resort. Dunno how to feel about it, really.

I guess it all boils down to results. If this turns Hicks around, it was a smart move. If he continues to flounder, it put undue stress and embarrassment on a young player. Time will tell.

The statement that immediately chapped me the most was Gardy's comment about not wanting to send down Florimon. COME ON. He obviously didn't belong on the roster.


I missed the comment about P-Flow- it's been obvious to everyone not named Gardenhire that Florimon should never have come north with the team at the end of March. Is this an indication that TR is slowly and quietly reasserting authority over the team? It's hard to imagine that Antony, through his own devices, has finally outright won an internal power play regarding personnel decisions.

#57 Thrylos

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:09 AM

How would we ever know if this ridiculous public display is what caused Hicks to start performing better. This that walk-off single might have had just as much if not more influence.


Exactly. And the how you do something is as important as what you do, especially if (let's say) you are interested in having free agents come to your team.

Calling a player (employee) out publicly is never a good move. What Antony did is exactly what George Steinbrenner and Calvin Griffith used to do to their players. If one has an opinion about Steinbrenner's and Griffith's behavior then, he/she should have the same opinion about Antony's now, in order to be consistent...
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#58 jokin

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:19 AM

Exactly. And the how you do something is as important as what you do, especially if (let's say) you are interested in having free agents come to your team.

Calling a player (employee) out publicly is never a good move. What Antony did is exactly what George Steinbrenner and Calvin Griffith used to do to their players. If one has an opinion about Steinbrenner's and Griffith's behavior then, he/she should have the same opinion about Antony's now, in order to be consistent...


Except that your first 2 examples were basically owners acting as their own GMs. Antony's frequent mistakes in the past have been of the petit-clumsy variety, not of the meglamaniacal variety. Is someone else pushing the buttons from behind the curtain? I cringe every time Antony publicly offers his thimblefull-deep "baseball knowledge" about a particular player's abilities and shortcomings.

#59 JB_Iowa

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:36 AM

The statement that immediately chapped me the most was Gardy's comment about not wanting to send down Florimon. COME ON. He obviously didn't belong on the roster.



Well, he still bemoans the loss of P-Flow in the field:
http://blogs.twincit...lorimons-range/


But I have to say that the headline writer was much nastier than Gardy's comments.

#60 cmathewson

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:39 AM

It will be interesting to see what the Twins do re: the GM job. I truly hope TR can return, as much for my care for his well being as the Twins success. But if he can't, I hope they put another baseball man in charge. It is a long-held belief that you can't make a baseball man from someone who didn't grow up around the game. They tried that with Smith and it was a disaster. I hope they don't repeat that mistake.
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