Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Article: Issues in the Outfield

  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Parker Hageman

Parker Hageman

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,298 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:05 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...in-the-Outfield

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." -- Jim Bouton, "Ball Four"


#2 Sconnie

Sconnie

    Tatertots R good

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:20 PM

Well written Parker! My only argument is keeping Bartlett made an already bad situation worse. Keeping Mastro or Presley would have mitigated the pain of watching IF play OF, and the hitting would be about the same, poor.

#3 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 5,365 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:45 PM

Through Monday night, the Twins have had infielders in the outfield for 45.2 innings


Meanwhile Parmelee, who was born and raised an outfielder, was sent to AAA. Is it hindsight to say that Parmelee should have made the team ahead of Bartlett?

#4 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:49 PM

Who positioned Escobar so shallow? The infielders turned outfielders get direction from the dugout. That Escobar looked bad is on the coaches for positioning him that shallow. I don't think he is the speedster that has patrolled shallow out there in the past

#5 troyhobbs

troyhobbs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 453 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:17 AM

Meanwhile Parmelee, who was born and raised an outfielder, was sent to AAA. Is it hindsight to say that Parmelee should have made the team ahead of Bartlett?


Pretty sure Gardy was the only person in mn that thought Bartlett should make the team, unfortunately his was the only opinion that mattered

#6 PopRiveter

PopRiveter

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:24 AM

I don't know how many teams could field a quality outfield while all 3 starters, + a first baseman and a reinforcement outfielder are all out at once.
Mastro and Presley were not going to make an impactful difference and there are always Sam Fulds showing up on the wire (see Mastroianni, Presley, Thomas, Wilson.)
IMO, the true issue isn't depth as much as having a quality starting centerfielder. Hicks' leash is waaaaaaaaay too long. The corners will be fine in short order, but this rash of injuries might mean the loss of Parmelee from the org, and it definitely means we watch some funny routes.

#7 kblack1011

kblack1011

    Member

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:25 AM

The front office really has no plan for the outfield. They just bring up players and tell them that they are now outfielders. Even with Parmelee, if they wanted him to be an outfielders, why did he play most his games at first base at AAA? Can't be because we had other major league OF's at AAA. Now with Santana, they have a player who needs to develop his skills as a shortstop (another position of weakness in the organization), but they throw him to centerfield at the majors.

Then they cut players from the 40 man roster who can actually play the outfield. It's becoming clear that they have no real plan to field a competitive team this year.

#8 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 15,414 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:40 AM

So the implication was that Gardy made the call on Bartlett over Presley?

Sigh.

#9 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 15,673 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:43 AM

There is a difference between "quality", and "play someone out there that has less than 20 gams experience", isnt there?

How can there be zero, zero, CF in AAA or AA? No one could move up to AA when Buxton went down, not even for a month or two? That implies, to me, there is no one in A+ either. Really hard to believe.

We've been over this, Hicks can't hit ML pitching. There should have 100% been a plan for his possible failure. There wasn't. The plan to back up Willingham (often injured and older) was to sign an injured older player. With no one in AAA that they wanted to call up if it didn't work.

#10 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,215 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:46 AM

The Twins made a serious run at Raj Davis over the offseason. Would we have this discussion if he chose us over Detroit? So saying the Twins did nothing to address the OF is wrong. There really wasn't any better options out there. I do think the Twins should have brought Pierre in to compete in spring training but I don't remember seeing many available options out there. I also thought it was odd the Twins were going after Raj David so what do I know.

#11 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 15,673 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:50 AM

There were myriad options....they chose not to pursue them. I'd guess over a dozen OF were available they could have signed. They could have traded one of their young RP (since they refuse to promote them, and realy only want verteraniness out there to walk in runs) for a AAA OF. Lots of ways to plan for this. Lots and lots of ways.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#12 halfchest

halfchest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 328 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:04 AM

Not to defend the front office, but they also were planning on Buxton starting at AA this year and many of us wouldn't have been shocked for him to be pressing for the big leagues by sometime in June if he continued to progress like last year. To me, he was part of the backup plan. The injuries to Hicks and Buxton were tough to foresee. However, once they knew Buxton was hurt it's almost unforgiveable to cut Pressley/Mastroianni knowing we lack depth behind Hicks and that Hicks isn't proven himself.

I was ok with what we brought into training camp MLB(Hicks/Pressley) AAA(Maistro) AA(Buxton) but keeping Bartlett over Pressley seemed dumb then and now it's come back to bite them.

#13 REPETE

REPETE

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 155 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:06 AM

it drove me nuts when Gardy played Cuddy at 2B, and raved about what a great team player he was, and how he battled his tail off out there. Cuddy did what his manager asked, but HE COULDN'T PLAY 2B!! There should never be a time a MLB player is so completely out of position, barring late inning replacement necessitated by pinch hitters. Keeping Bartlett, and saying he'll learn how to play OF made no sense. Gardy manages the Twins like a softball team.

#14 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,220 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:09 AM

"It essentially cost the Twins that game. " Well, much like the Buckner grounder its more that it cost the Twins a fair chance at the game. If you make the play and you would have won then an error costs you the game. If the score is tied when you make it then there was probably a close to even chance you were going to lose anyway.

#15 Cris E

Cris E

    Member

  • Members
  • 107 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:11 AM

They were too worried about blocking Hicks/Buxton, too concerned about Willingham's feelings to not consider playing him more at DH and less in LF, and way too optimistic in assuming guys would stay healthy. As said above, the insurance policy for the happy path was not well conceived.

#16 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:23 AM

This is exactly what I've been saying, but more elegantly written and strongly argued. Great job.

#17 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:48 AM

So the implication was that Gardy made the call on Bartlett over Presley?

Sigh.


Yes. My question is, where is the accountability for decisions like this? Someone said Gardy was the only one in MN who thought it was a good idea. I can say he was the only person in the universe. Bartlett could barely get the bat on the ball in spring training. He had never played professionally in the outfield. So why not give him the chance to play his way onto the 40 man in AAA? If he opts out, I guess he didn't want it enough. But why rush him back from nearly two years away from the game? And why risk losing the only back-up center fielder on the 40 man to do it? Gardy's response was "I don't need a back-up center fielder." If an employee of mine made such a bone-head decision, I'd fire him.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#18 Beezer07

Beezer07

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 637 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:02 AM

We've been over this, Hicks can't hit ML pitching.


Hicks has not been good in the majors thus far in his career. But this seems like an awfully bold statement to make considering he's only had 400+ PAs. I know he can't hit ML pitching yet, but why are people so quick to give up on a guy who's part of a team that is BAD? What benefit is there to the Twins in picking up waiver wire garbage with no higher ceiling? I say let Hicks keep struggling and hope he figures it out over the next year, much like hundreds of MLers before him.

#19 SweetOne69

SweetOne69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 604 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:07 AM

Yes. My question is, where is the accountability for decisions like this? Someone said Gardy was the only one in MN who thought it was a good idea. I can say he was the only person in the universe. Bartlett could barely get the bat on the ball in spring training. He had never played professionally in the outfield. So why not give him the chance to play his way onto the 40 man in AAA? If he opts out, I guess he didn't want it enough. But why rush him back from nearly two years away from the game? And why risk losing the only back-up center fielder on the 40 man to do it? Gardy's response was "I don't need a back-up center fielder." If an employee of mine made such a bone-head decision, I'd fire him.


I agree.

The conversation should've gone something like this:
Gardy: I want Bartlett on the roster.
FO: I understand you like the guy, but he doesn't look ready. We should keep him in the minors to see if is offense comes around.

#20 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Let's Keep Winning!

  • Members
  • 5,986 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:09 AM

The Bartlett decision was not Gardenhire's alone.

He had an enabler in the front office. (That is the part that should be of most concern).