Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The Store

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Recent Blogs

From MinnCentric


Photo

Twins Option Florimon, Herrmann

  • Please log in to reply
81 replies to this topic

#61 Sconnie

Sconnie

    King of his Castle

  • Members
  • 1,442 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:26 AM

He can't be worse than Florimon.

As much consternation as there has been over centerfield, I don't understand why people haven't been more critical of shortstop, which was the glaring flaw of the roster going into the season in my opinion.

The Opening Day shortstop had an OPS+ of 0 over 74 PAs. By comparison, Aaron Hicks looks like Barry Bonds next to that guy.

Last I saw there were 4 players with professional experience at SS on the 40 man and only 2 at CF. "P-Flawed" had no business as the starter, but at least there are reserves who have upside. My issues with the two positions are very different.

#62 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,290 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:29 AM

Last I saw there were 4 players with professional experience at SS on the 40 man and only 2 at CF. "P-Flawed" had no business as the starter, but at least there are reserves who have upside. My issues with the two positions are very different.


I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.

Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.

#63 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:56 AM

I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.

concur. Long term, SS is a bigger problem than CF in my opinion.

#64 Linus

Linus

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 568 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:11 AM

I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.

Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.


I'm curious why you don't think Santana's ceiling is that high? Fast, strong arm, rangy with some pop in the bat. He's clearly got a ways to go but he has some athletic ability.

#65 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,290 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:14 AM

I'm curious why you don't think Santana's ceiling is that high? Fast, strong arm, rangy with some pop in the bat. He's clearly got a ways to go but he has some athletic ability.


He's a decent prospect, for sure... But he's not even close to a guy like Aaron Hicks and we all see how that is currently going for the Twins.

If you have an organization with Danny Santana in it and he's somewhere around #15 on the prospect list, that's pretty good. And that's where the Twins currently sit... But Danny Santana isn't a great prospect by any stretch of the imagination. Unless something drastically changes, he'll never sniff anyone's top 100 list.

#66 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:17 AM

I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.

Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.


I have more hope for Santana than you. But I admit, it's more about tools than numbers. Though he has Guzman upside, his floor is Florimon. The one thing that might be deceptive in his numbers is he's been really young for his level at each stop. He's still developing, and if he can harness his incredible tool chest, he could be special. I think it's worth finding out now.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#67 Linus

Linus

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 568 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:19 AM

He's a decent prospect, for sure... But he's not even close to a guy like Aaron Hicks and we all see how that is currently going for the Twins.

If you have an organization with Danny Santana in it and he's somewhere around #15 on the prospect list, that's pretty good. And that's where the Twins currently sit... But Danny Santana isn't a great prospect by any stretch of the imagination. Unless something drastically changes, he'll never sniff anyone's top 100 list.


I'm a little more high on him than this I guess (not really focusing on rankings I guess). Maybe because its really hard to find "true" shortstops and, to my eye, he clearly has the athletic ability to play there. Whether he ever polishes up the fielding and consistency at the plate will determine if my optimism is completely misguided.

#68 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,290 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:22 AM

I'm a little more high on him than this I guess (not really focusing on rankings I guess). Maybe because its really hard to find "true" shortstops and, to my eye, he clearly has the athletic ability to play there. Whether he ever polishes up the fielding and consistency at the plate will determine if my optimism is completely misguided.


I view him a lot like Dozier with a higher ceiling but lower floor.

Dozier was a pretty solid prospect for the Twins who got by on smarts and discipline. Santana is kind of the opposite... Which gives him a higher ceiling but a higher chance of flaming out as well.

Those guys are really valuable in an organization but only in quantity because so many bomb out before they become Brian Dozier. Even Brian Dozier almost bombed out before he became Brian Dozier.

#69 Linus

Linus

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 568 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:30 AM

Agreed. Except for the very elite prospects, you really have to throw a lot against the wall to make something stick. Boy would it be huge though if he developed into a competent MLB shortstop.

#70 TheDean

TheDean

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 189 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:01 PM

Utility Infielder isn't exactly a difficult slot to fill, but still it seems like we've got a good one right now and can take satisfaction in it, rather than push him to be a mediocre starter.


This sentence screams "mid-2000s Nick Punto."

#71 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,782 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:46 PM

@RhettBollinger: #MNTwins activate Aaron Hicks from 7-day concussion list. Chris Parmelee's contract purchased from Triple-A Rochester. Kenny Wilson DFA'd.
Take your time, and do it right. - N. Fury

#72 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 3,975 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:53 PM

Well that gets him on the 40 man, now to option or DFA one of our 19 relievers and get him on the 25 man.

#73 golfboy1

golfboy1

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 108 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:02 PM

He's a decent prospect, for sure... But he's not even close to a guy like Aaron Hicks and we all see how that is currently going for the Twins.

If you have an organization with Danny Santana in it and he's somewhere around #15 on the prospect list, that's pretty good. And that's where the Twins currently sit... But Danny Santana isn't a great prospect by any stretch of the imagination. Unless something drastically changes, he'll never sniff anyone's top 100 list.


I don't know. They both have a chance to succeed or fail completely but so far Hicks is the one who has shown he can't hit ML pitching( so far).

I like Santana more than most since I believe he has the tools to be plus on both sides of the ball. He probably has a high fail rate but you can't teach that kind of speed or arm. Hopefully they can teach him some patience & to smooth out his game.

Hicks still has a chance but I don't recall to many players who started their career with his hitting stats who went onto a successful future.

cmathewson compared him to Guzman & that's probably a good comp. Guzman was a pretty good SS for few years

#74 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,782 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:03 PM

Well that gets him on the 40 man, now to option or DFA one of our 19 relievers and get him on the 25 man.


He'd be taking Herrmann's spot.
Take your time, and do it right. - N. Fury

#75 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 3,975 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:10 PM

He'd be taking Herrmann's spot.


Isn't Hicks taking that spot or are they sending Santana back down? That needs to be done because, you know, 13 pitchers and all.

Edited by twinsnorth49, 09 May 2014 - 01:12 PM.


#76 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Daily Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,834 posts
  • LocationLake Tahoe, Nevada

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:12 PM

This sentence screams "mid-2000s Nick Punto."


Yes, he might even have been in the back of my mind as I wrote that, and a player like that is a reasonably valuable commodity. It was only when Punto was pressed into everyday use that we came to hate him. If you hold onto a guy like that until he becomes expensive, it saves you from signing the Jamey Carrolls (or late career Nick Puntos) of the world. A small but satisfying market inefficiency, maybe.

#77 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,782 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:25 PM

Isn't Hicks taking that spot or are they sending Santana back down? That needs to be done because, you know, 13 pitchers and all.


The answer lies deeply hidden in the title of this thread.
Take your time, and do it right. - N. Fury

#78 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 7,252 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:28 PM

They DFA'd one o their CF again? Not a RP? Explain?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#79 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 3,975 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:29 PM

The answer lies deeply hidden in the title of this thread.


Whoops, thought Santana and Nunez made 24, apparently not, forgot Fuld bonked his noggin" . Let's just hope when Fuld or Arcia are ready they lose a pitcher instead of Parms.

#80 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,782 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

Whoops, though Santana and Nunez made 24, apparently not, forgot Fuld bonked his noggin" . Let's just hope when Fuld or Arcia are ready they lose a pitcher instead of Parms.


Seems likely. I'm still voting for Burton.
Take your time, and do it right. - N. Fury

#81 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 3,975 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:32 PM

Burton, Guerrier, potato, potato.

#82 Sconnie

Sconnie

    King of his Castle

  • Members
  • 1,442 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:06 PM

They DFA'd one o their CF again? Not a RP? Explain?

I'm baffled too, Hicks is a sneeze away from not remembering his name anymore and they thin the CF depth further. I hope someone claims him just to make a point.