Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Roster Shuffle: Twins Add Guerrier, What's Next?

  • Please log in to reply
210 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:32 AM

As for Guerrier, it seems to me it's another example of the Twins perhaps making promises to aging free agents over the winter that they shouldn't have made, and shouldn't feel compelled to honor (see Bartlett, Jason for another example).

It's also another example of poor roster management that has been a recurring issue. A major league team shouldn't be playing for this long with this bad of a bench.

#22 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 17,760 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:36 AM

How long will this front office get a (mostly) free pass on its terrible roster management the last couple years??


From the press and some people? Forever is my guess. Luckily for the Twins, tonight is the NFL draft, so almost no one is paying attn to this.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#23 Craig Arko

Craig Arko

    Marching for... Science

  • Members
  • 6,789 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:40 AM

This is the next callup...

"Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." -- R.P. Feynman


#24 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:48 AM

From the press and some people? Forever is my guess. Luckily for the Twins, tonight is the NFL draft, so almost no one is paying attn to this.


Fire Rob Antony. There, I said it.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#25 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 16,391 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:52 AM

Fire Rob Antony. There, I said it.


Ugh. We don't even know for sure that this was his decision.

Besides, even if it was his decision, everyone is going to make stupid mistakes at a new job.

If he's still making these kinds of moves next year (provided he's the one who made the move at all), then you talk about moving on because he's obviously not capable at the position.

If people on this forum managed large numbers of people the way they suggest the Twins manage their operation, they'd have no workers left because they would have fired everybody for trivial offenses.

#26 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 17,760 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:54 AM

I'm not sure having 2 OF on your roster is "trivial". I would never have hired Antony in the first place to be GM, given what I know from the outside.

But I wasn't talking about guys like cmat or me when I said "some people" would give them a pass forever.....

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#27 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 9,884 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:56 AM

Logan Darnell should be starting (as in beginning games) in AAA right now. Matt Guerrier has been a very solid big league contributor for 10 years. Let's think about the track record instead of his most recent outing in Rochester. If he's healthy, he should be alright. Darnell will be back. May and Meyer, they'll come up later. This is kind of a no-brainer move for the Twins. Sure, he could be the second coming of Mike Trombley's comeback, or he could be a solid 6th and 7th inning guy. I don't mind this at all.


I think other posters probably said it better, but Guerrier and Darnell aren't really the issue. It's the 13 pitchers, the lack of outfielders, the lack of a bench.

Wouldn't really be an issue if it was truly a short-term thing, but this has been an issue since the first week of the season (if not earlier), nothing has been done to fix it, and we've already seen it cost us a few games.

Also wouldn't be an issue if the pitchers offered a lot of upside, but that does not appear to be the case.

#28 Beezer07

Beezer07

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 637 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:00 AM

People actually typed that bringing up a 35 year old RP, when the team already has too many RP and not enough OF, is a good idea. On a team that is rebuilding. On a team that claims it wants to promote and reward minor leaguers. Wow.


Shouldn't people be allowed to have opinions different than yours?

#29 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 16,391 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:00 AM

I'm not sure having 2 OF on your roster is "trivial". I would never have hired Antony in the first place to be GM, given what I know from the outside.


In the grand scheme of things, it's trivial. It's a "mistake" that can be reversed today if need be. This isn't a Capps/Ramos situation that cannot be undone.

I don't like the move one bit but calling for a guy's head over it is absurd.

#30 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    2 + 2 = 5

  • Members
  • 2,431 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:06 AM

Trivial it would be if it only happened once. But this kind of mismanagement has been going on for a couple years.

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.

 

Yogi Berra


#31 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 17,760 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:08 AM

From Hardballtalk.com today:

The Twins carry a eight-man bullpen and Joe Mauer is hurt, but not on the DL. That means they have 11 position players available, which means that shortstop Eduardo Escobar played left field. The Indians’ ninth inning rally kicked off when Escobar got turned around on a fly ball and it ended up landing on the track for a double. Maybe — and this is just a suggestion — teams don’t need eight-man bullpens.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#32 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 9,884 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:09 AM

As for Guerrier, it seems to me it's another example of the Twins perhaps making promises to aging free agents over the winter that they shouldn't have made, and shouldn't feel compelled to honor (see Bartlett, Jason for another example).


Mildly off-topic: how did Bartlett get such an early opt-out date, compared to Guerrier? I get that Guerrier was coming off surgery in the off-season, but Bartlett had been out of baseball almost two years. Bartlett got the same basic opt-out date (late March) as Kubel?

I see now that Guerrier was cut in the spring and re-signed with the later opt-out date... very curious why that wasn't pursued with Bartlett, his spring was probably worse than Guerrier's and his long layoff probably left him more rusty than Guerrier too. Was another team going to add Bartlett to their 25-man roster in late March?

Whether roster promises were made prematurely to these players, this certainly supports my theory that the Twins front office is perhaps a little too much like a country club -- they almost always prefer to work with familiar players, coaches, and agents, often to the exclusion of performance considerations.

#33 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 17,760 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:10 AM

Shouldn't people be allowed to have opinions different than yours?


Of course you can. Explain why this is a good idea, and if I agree with your rationale, I will change my mind. Why is it a good idea to have 8 RP, call up a 35 year old that wasn't good last year, during a rebuild, when you have people in the minors that could do his job? when the team has 2 OF, 3 C and 3 SS on the roster? If you can explain why this is roster is well run right now, I am willing to admit I was wrong.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#34 Paul Pleiss

Paul Pleiss

    Nick Punto's Ghost

  • Members
  • 1,068 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:13 AM

I don't understand how adding Guerrier makes the team better, how it's good for the organization, or anyone other than Guerrier. Did the Twins make a back-room deal to bring him up before releasing him and they're just saving face by honoring this back-alley deal?

Jason Bartlett, Matt Guerrier. What the?

#35 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 9,884 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:15 AM

In the grand scheme of things, it's trivial. It's a "mistake" that can be reversed today if need be. This isn't a Capps/Ramos situation that cannot be undone.


I wouldn't fire the guy, and worse moves have happened even more recently than Capps/Ramos, but this situation is not really a momentary mistake. This has been the condition since at least March, if not earlier (given how little we actually thought of Presley and Mastro). And we're still apparently waiting for lingering health issues to resolve themselves (and massive performance reversals, in the case of Hicks) as our solution.

Again, I wouldn't fire Antony, but if these moves have been his call or met with his approval, I would definitely start bugging TR to return, and severely temper any plans for Antony to be the heir apparent GM.

#36 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

Don't Feed the Greed Guy

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 523 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:15 AM

I consider myself to be a longtime fan, who weathered the Calvin Griffith years when the Twins roster was sold off/bought off young talent to California (Bostock and Carew) and New York (Smalley and Wynegar). But the 2014 Reunion Tour of aging talents like Guerrier, Kubel, and Bartlett is a new low in the opposite direction--at a time when the team should be rebuilding, not reliving the past.

These recent roster/lineup moves reek of desperation. Heck, even Danny Santana has more experience in the outfield than Eduardo Escobar... Weird. And why/when will Joe Mauer go on the DL, at least retroactive to Sunday? This is getting bizarre...

#37 Thrylos

Thrylos

    They Finally fired ’em. Play Ball!

  • Members
  • 7,563 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:24 AM

Logan Darnell should be starting (as in beginning games) in AAA right now. Matt Guerrier has been a very solid big league contributor for 10 years. Let's think about the track record instead of his most recent outing in Rochester.


Darnell should be starting for the Twins instead of Deduno while Pelfrey is out.

The ghost of Gurrier's past is what the Twins are counting on. Past performance does not mean much. They did that mistake (at least) once trading for Yesterday Eddie when he was the same age Guerrier is and he was awful. They got to learn at some point.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#38 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,233 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:52 AM

I just want to point out a few obvious things.

1. depth management is as important as roster construction this time of year which is why the best players are not called up right now. We need to make sure we keep as many assets as we can in case of injury...

2. With a few breaks we could actually be competitive this year. when Meyer comes up and if Deduno pitches well then we could end up with an average to slightly above average rotation. and Detroit has an ineffective bullpen so if Guerrier is a FA cause we don't call him up I bet he goes there and pitches with Nathan out of their pen. We can just as easily hold on to him and we have trade leverage.

3. Our tradeable pieces are adding up Corriea, Pelfry, several bullpen arms, Parmelee, Willingham, and Kubel. We could really add to our minor league depth this trade deadline.

4. The Twins tend to keep an eye on other teams pretty well. I wonder if they were planning to get Fuld from the get go. Pressley really looked bad in spring training.

#39 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,298 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:56 AM

" Darnell should be starting for the Twins instead of Deduno while Pelfrey is out" This. "The Twins have done a terrible job at managing their 25-and 40-man rosters this season. A little of this is injury-based, to be sure...but a lot of it is self-inflicted, starting with the Bartlett debacle" This. " I don't think the issue is Guerrier's past accomplishments or what he still has left in the tank. The issue is does he bring any real value added to this team now or in the future? I think the answer is no. The bullpen has been solid and they shouldn't waste a roster move on an aging relief pitcher when they are in desperate need of a bench. This is a no-brainer move.....they should have let Guerrier walk...." This. and ""Hey...you're wasting a roster spot on a third catcher. How do we know you're wasting that roster spot? You haven't played him at catcher." This. I have never used the "This" comment, used bold, or questioned the Twins moves this much. I just don't get it. Florimon down but don't understand why the push from posters for Nunez. Escobar has done just fine and should be given the chance and if he fails give it to Santana and if he fails give it to Nunez. Escobar has earned it and Santana is most likely to be part of the future. If all fails maybe Florimon will have earned his way back by then.

#40 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 16,391 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:58 AM

Deduno was the Twins' best pitcher when healthy last season. He deserves the first shot at an open spot in the rotation.