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#1 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:10 AM

Why?

#2 Sconnie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:36 AM

Necessity is the mother of invention. However, Nick wrote an excellent article about one Mr. Chris Parmelee that may be an alternative to Hermann Munster.

#3 cmathewson

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:41 AM

It won't be long before Arcia is up here. Rumors say Friday. I can't come soon enough.

But it is unconscionable that this guy is playing in the majors, when Parmelee is at least serviceable and raking in AAA. I know they need another roster spot, but WTF? DFA Hermann and bring up Parmelee. There's a .01 percent chance Hermann gets claimed at this point. People complain about Florimon, but at least he is providing defensive value. Hermann is practically an automatic out, and a below-average corner outfielder. Yes he can catch, but he has not caught one inning all year, an indication that he is not really a catcher.
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#4 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:20 AM

For a brief moment in time, Herrmann made sense. But that moment has passed.

Also, quit carrying 12, 13, 14, 15 pitchers, or whatever they are at now. Ryan hired a bunch of vet starting pitchers to pitch deeper into games right?

With a 11 or 12 man staff Herrmann is a 25th man who plays once or twice a week as a late inning guy instead of starting every night.

#5 cmathewson

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:24 AM

For a brief moment in time, Herrmann made sense. But that moment has passed.

Also, quit carrying 12, 13, 14, 15 pitchers, or whatever they are at now. Ryan hired a bunch of vet starting pitchers to pitch deeper into games right?

With a 11 or 12 man staff Herrmann is a 25th man who plays once or twice a week as a late inning guy instead of starting every night.


He's not bad, as long as he only plays in an emergency. Maybe as the 26th man for double headers or something. But not as a regular player. As such, he's an out machine and a marginal outfielder.
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#6 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:52 AM

Part of the problem is Gardy's fear of "only" two catchers. Part of the problem is multiple OF injuries, compounded by deadwood on the 40 man roster.

#7 amjgt

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:26 AM

It won't be long before Arcia is up here. Rumors say Friday. I can't come soon enough.

But it is unconscionable that this guy is playing in the majors, when Parmelee is at least serviceable and raking in AAA. I know they need another roster spot, but WTF? DFA Hermann and bring up Parmelee. There's a .01 percent chance Hermann gets claimed at this point. People complain about Florimon, but at least he is providing defensive value. Hermann is practically an automatic out, and a below-average corner outfielder. Yes he can catch, but he has not caught one inning all year, an indication that he is not really a catcher.


But Gardy's Nooky Blanky 3rd catcher helps him sleep better at night.

#8 TKGuy

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:30 AM

Part of the problem is Gardy's fear of "only" two catchers. Part of the problem is multiple OF injuries, compounded by deadwood on the 40 man roster.


Easy to DFA people off roster, Wilson not needed because of Buxton coming back

#9 cmathewson

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:35 AM

I suppose Antony is worried about Parmelee's options. If you add him and bring him up, you have to DFA him to send him back down. And he already lost Mastro that way. So we limp along until Arcia is ready, and Willingham, and Hicks. All three could be ready within a couple of weeks, and we know Parmelee would not stay on the MLB roster for all three activations.
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#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:38 AM

so it's better to have Parm in AAA, so you don't lose him, than to have him up in the majors and maybe lose him later? That, um, does not make sense.
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#11 Sconnie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:39 AM

Part of the problem is Gardy's fear of "only" two catchers. Part of the problem is multiple OF injuries, compounded by deadwood on the 40 man roster.

Don't forget about the 13 pitchers on the 25 man roster.

#12 jokin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

Easy to DFA people off roster, Wilson not needed because of Buxton coming back



Both Raley and Wilson are on the roster because of the teams' somewhat futile need to retaliate against the Cubs and Blue Jays for claiming Twins' DFAd players. Both are in their 7th years in the minors and appear to offer little more than roster filler, clearly some of the deadwood that Chief alluded to.

#13 Boom Boom

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:46 AM

I suppose Antony is worried about Parmelee's options. If you add him and bring him up, you have to DFA him to send him back down. And he already lost Mastro that way. So we limp along until Arcia is ready, and Willingham, and Hicks. All three could be ready within a couple of weeks, and we know Parmelee would not stay on the MLB roster for all three activations.


I'd call up Parmelee now.

I get that it makes some tough roster decisions, but that's a bridge you can cross later. By the time that decision needs to be made, someone else is likely to be injured.

Who knows how long Hicks will be out? Or Willingham? Or maybe Mauer goes from day-to-day to DL?

#14 Sconnie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:47 AM

I suppose Antony is worried about Parmelee's options. If you add him and bring him up, you have to DFA him to send him back down. And he already lost Mastro that way. So we limp along until Arcia is ready, and Willingham, and Hicks. All three could be ready within a couple of weeks, and we know Parmelee would not stay on the MLB roster for all three activations.

Or 2/3 could be out for the rest of the season, but crippled by indecision, the Twins continue for weeks with Mauer active but unable to play, 13 pitchers, 3 catchers, 1 outfielder, 1 DH, 3 SS, 1 1b, 1 3b, 1 2b, because Arcia, Hicks, and Willingham might be ready to play at some point in the future when Hicks has a brain injury that has wreaked havoc on this team in the recent past, and Willingham is 100 years old with a broken wrist and zero fielding skills left.

#15 amjgt

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:50 AM

So, let me get this 3rd catcher theory straight.

We keep a 3rd catcher on roster for two potential scenarios....

Scenario 1) One of our catchers is catching and the other is DHing. The guy that is catching gets injured, so the DH needs to get pulled into the game, "eliminating" the DH and causing the pitcher to get placed in the batting order. If this happens early in a game, it COULD mean that the pitcher spot would come up several times over the course of the rest of the game.

To avoid this 1/50 chance we are now batting Hermann, who is worse at hitting than an average MLB pitcher, several times EVERY game. Under normal circumstances, where the 3rd catcher just sits on the bench week after week, having this player prevents a legitimate late inning PHer from being on the roster, who could have an impact on many games per week.


Scenario 2) One of our two offensive juggernaut catchers gets an off day, but is available to PH. Late in the game we use him to PH. THEN our starting catcher gets hurt, leaving us needing to use our emergency catcher, presumably for no more than an inning or two.

To avoid this "once every 5 years" chance, we are currently using our 3rd catcher in the OF, but he's not any good, and he's one of the guys who we would pinch hit for, so we haven't really avoided this "problem." Under normal circumstances we carry dead weight on our roster so that Eduardo Escobar doesn't need to play catcher for an inning once every 5 years.

#16 Sconnie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:51 AM

I'd call up Parmelee now.

I get that it makes some tough roster decisions, but that's a bridge you can cross later. By the time that decision needs to be made, someone else is likely to be injured.

Who knows how long Hicks will be out? Or Willingham? Or maybe Mauer goes from day-to-day to DL?

Agreed, and Burton will pass through waivers

#17 mike wants wins

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:56 AM

So, let me get this 3rd catcher theory straight.

We keep a 3rd catcher on roster for two potential scenarios....

Scenario 1) One of our catchers is catching and the other is DHing. The guy that is catching gets injured, so the DH needs to get pulled into the game, "eliminating" the DH and causing the pitcher to get placed in the batting order. If this happens early in a game, it COULD mean that the pitcher spot would come up several times over the course of the rest of the game.

To avoid this 1/50 chance we are now batting Hermann, who is worse at hitting than an average MLB pitcher, several times EVERY game. Under normal circumstances, where the 3rd catcher just sits on the bench week after week, having this player prevents a legitimate late inning PHer from being on the roster, who could have an impact on many games per week.


Scenario 2) One of our two offensive juggernaut catchers gets an off day, but is available to PH. Late in the game we use him to PH. THEN our starting catcher gets hurt, leaving us needing to use our emergency catcher, presumably for no more than an inning or two.

To avoid this "once every 5 years" chance, we are currently using our 3rd catcher in the OF, but he's not any good, and he's one of the guys who we would pinch hit for, so we haven't really avoided this "problem." Under normal circumstances we carry dead weight on our roster so that Eduardo Escobar doesn't need to play catcher for an inning once every 5 years.



Math is hard.....Gardy is paid 7 figures to do baseball strategy, Antony and Ryan and the FO are paid a ton of money, and they can't figure this out.
Lighten up Francis....

#18 jokin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:56 AM

Don't forget about the 13 pitchers on the 25 man roster.


I have to think that the Twins will make their move today or tomorrow- the Wings are just 2 hours down the road at Columbus- they likely kept Darnell around solely in the mop up role for Deduno's first start. It's arguable that 13 pitchers and 3 "catchers" cost them a chance to beat a struggling Indians squad last night- and made the job tougher in the 1-0 win on Monday night. After Mauer went down on Sunday, and coming off of 3 good starts from the rotation against the Orioles- they could have had sent down an excess pitcher and Hermann and added 2 more bats on the roster- at the cost of only needing to add one player to the 40-man- Parmelee and Vargas.

Edited by jokin, 07 May 2014 - 08:10 AM.


#19 Sconnie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

So, let me get this 3rd catcher theory straight.

We keep a 3rd catcher on roster for two potential scenarios....

Scenario 1) One of our catchers is catching and the other is DHing. The guy that is catching gets injured, so the DH needs to get pulled into the game, "eliminating" the DH and causing the pitcher to get placed in the batting order. If this happens early in a game, it COULD mean that the pitcher spot would come up several times over the course of the rest of the game.

To avoid this 1/50 chance we are now batting Hermann, who is worse at hitting than an average MLB pitcher, several times EVERY game. Under normal circumstances, where the 3rd catcher just sits on the bench week after week, having this player prevents a legitimate late inning PHer from being on the roster, who could have an impact on many games per week.


Scenario 2) One of our two offensive juggernaut catchers gets an off day, but is available to PH. Late in the game we use him to PH. THEN our starting catcher gets hurt, leaving us needing to use our emergency catcher, presumably for no more than an inning or two.

To avoid this "once every 5 years" chance, we are currently using our 3rd catcher in the OF, but he's not any good, and he's one of the guys who we would pinch hit for, so we haven't really avoided this "problem." Under normal circumstances we carry dead weight on our roster so that Eduardo Escobar doesn't need to play catcher for an inning once every 5 years.

Calling Hermann a catcher (which I do too) is kinda like calling Escobar a catcher. Hermann is more of a super-futility player who also can't field, in a addition to can't hit. He might be a good catcher, but I wouldn't know since he never catches.

Don't forget the 3rd scenario where Zuke catches, Pinto DHs, Herman is in OF, and Zuke gets injured, so Gardy makes a double shift (see this tangent from the game thread the other night is now meaningful) to move Hermann from the outfield to Catcher, but because of the short bench, there's no one left to play the outfield but Florimon or a pitcher.

#20 jokin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:04 AM

I'd call up Parmelee now.

I get that it makes some tough roster decisions, but that's a bridge you can cross later. By the time that decision needs to be made, someone else is likely to be injured.

Who knows how long Hicks will be out? Or Willingham? Or maybe Mauer goes from day-to-day to DL?


Yep. Plus, if you give Parmelee a chance, you have the opportunity to showcase him to potential suitors in search of cheap in-season help at 1st base to possibly engineer a trade.
Or he sticks with the Twins and then there are others on the roster (like Colabello) who could be sent down. Or conversely, if Parm falls flat on his face, repeat the DFA process back to Rochester. Why do they insist on shooting themselves in the foot with these short benches and sub-standard players like Hermann in the lineup?

#21 Sconnie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:05 AM

I have to think that the Twins will make their move today or tomorrow- the Wings are just 2 hours down the road at Columbus. It's arguable that 13 pitchers and 3 "catchers" cost them a chance to beat a struggling Indians squad last night- and made the job tougher in the 1-0 win on Monday night. After Mauer went down on Sunday, and coming off of 3 good starts from the rotation against the Orioles- they could have had sent down an excess pitcher and Hermann and added 2 more bats on the roster- at the cost of only needing to add one player to the 40-man- Parmelee and Vargas.

I hope you are right

#22 jokin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:08 AM

So, let me get this 3rd catcher theory straight.

We keep a 3rd catcher on roster for two potential scenarios....

Scenario 1) One of our catchers is catching and the other is DHing. The guy that is catching gets injured, so the DH needs to get pulled into the game, "eliminating" the DH and causing the pitcher to get placed in the batting order. If this happens early in a game, it COULD mean that the pitcher spot would come up several times over the course of the rest of the game.

To avoid this 1/50 chance we are now batting Hermann, who is worse at hitting than an average MLB pitcher, several times EVERY game. Under normal circumstances, where the 3rd catcher just sits on the bench week after week, having this player prevents a legitimate late inning PHer from being on the roster, who could have an impact on many games per week.


Scenario 2) One of our two offensive juggernaut catchers gets an off day, but is available to PH. Late in the game we use him to PH. THEN our starting catcher gets hurt, leaving us needing to use our emergency catcher, presumably for no more than an inning or two.

To avoid this "once every 5 years" chance, we are currently using our 3rd catcher in the OF, but he's not any good, and he's one of the guys who we would pinch hit for, so we haven't really avoided this "problem." Under normal circumstances we carry dead weight on our roster so that Eduardo Escobar doesn't need to play catcher for an inning once every 5 years.


Well stated. It's maddening, to the point of infuriating, that there is no one in Twins management that can't calmly break this all down to the manager and then hit him upside the head with the cold, hard statistical facts.

#23 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

I think the other elephant in the room is the infielder in the outfield syndrome that the Twins are suffering from. They were given a get out of jail free card when Bartlett retired, but they have still been running a first baseman in RF regularly (Colabello) and on the radio last night I heard that Gardy has been making noise about Santana or Escobar playing Left Field when Kubel gets a day off at some point this week.

"Why?" indeed. You have to have 3 Catchers, but not 3 healthy outfielders?

#24 Boom Boom

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:20 AM

Why?


To get back to the original question... because Jason Bartlett retired?

#25 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:25 AM

To get back to the original question... because Jason Bartlett retired?


You probably could have just said "Because Bartlett". As others have said, everything seems to boil back down to that mystifying decision.

#26 jokin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:46 AM

I think the other elephant in the room is the infielder in the outfield syndrome that the Twins are suffering from. They were given a get out of jail free card when Bartlett retired, but they have still been running a first baseman in RF regularly (Colabello) and on the radio last night I heard that Gardy has been making noise about Santana or Escobar playing Left Field when Kubel gets a day off at some point this week.

"Why?" indeed. You have to have 3 Catchers, but not 3 healthy outfielders?


And don't forget the 3 SS.

The problem is literally systemic- no viable OF options (save Parmelee) until you reach down to A+ ball, and the injuries and the bonehead Bartlett move have exposed the Twins short-sighted thinking on the lack of depth options for all to see. How do you go into the season:

with 3 guys who all struggled mightily in 2013 as your starters.....and then.......
cut bait on Presley,
not bolster the OF with a FA signing or 2,
rely on a career SS, 2 years out of baseball as your 5th OF,
rely on an Indy ball 1stB as your 6th OF,
rely on Chris Hermann as your 7th OF.


This is on the Twins.

#27 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:53 AM

Is it a misguided attempt to copy the Rays' success? I'm all for roster flexibility, but the talent and athleticism has to actually be there for it to work. A player can be an exceptional athlete, but it doesn't mean they can play out of their regular position with the same skill level.

#28 stringer bell

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:55 AM

I have to think that the Twins will make their move today or tomorrow- the Wings are just 2 hours down the road at Columbus- they likely kept Darnell around solely in the mop up role for Deduno's first start. It's arguable that 13 pitchers and 3 "catchers" cost them a chance to beat a struggling Indians squad last night- and made the job tougher in the 1-0 win on Monday night. After Mauer went down on Sunday, and coming off of 3 good starts from the rotation against the Orioles- they could have had sent down an excess pitcher and Hermann and added 2 more bats on the roster- at the cost of only needing to add one player to the 40-man- Parmelee and Vargas.

Nit-pick, but I believe Vargas is on the 40-man.

#29 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:02 AM

I can't come soon enough.


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#30 TheDean

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:25 AM

Nit-pick, but I believe Vargas is on the 40-man.


I think jokin meant that two bats can be added: Parmelee and Vargas
For that to happen, only one 40-man move needs to be made: Parmelee.