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Moves that are warranted

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#1 TKGuy

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:06 PM

Everybody remembers the 1987 season and the Buck Ninety Kid, Tim Laudner. He was on a great team and his catching skills were more important than average. In any event, the Twins have a couple of players batting less than a Buck forty, including Florimon in a major role along with Hermann. I believe Florimon has options left and he should be shipped to Rochester and replaced by Bernier. Hermann should be replaced by Parmalee. The problem with both moves is that Bernier and Parmalee are not on the 40 man roster. I think you DFA Hermann for Parmalee. We still have Fryer on the 40 man if god forbid Hermann gets claimed. As for Bernier, with Escobar taking over as everyday SS, he is way more valuable than Florimon because he can play multiple positions and Florimon cannot. While not as good with the glove, Bernier can certainly hit better. At this point I think you DFA Wilson off the roster. Buxton will be in New Britain soon anyways, so not a big deal if Wilson gets claimed. That still leaves Gardy with two catchers, but he can get over it. I'd leave Arcia in Rochester after his rehab is over. Hicks will send Santana back when he's ready.

In the new era of player responsibility, we cannot afford to have a Starting SS who cannot hit and another backup OF who cannot hit and even drops fly balls.

#2 cmathewson

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:15 PM

Florimon is out of options, but would clear waivers in all likelihood. Opening his roster spot could make room for an additional position player. Possibly Parmelee, who deserves it the most.
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#3 snepp

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:19 PM

Florimon is out of options


According to TD's resident roster and payroll expert, Florimon has used just 2 option years, 2010 and 11.

#4 mike wants wins

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:31 PM

Why do we care if they lose florimann?
Lighten up Francis....

#5 CRArko

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:42 PM

I think it's more likely that Arcia and Nunez are up at some point during the road trip. The 40-man move that might have to happen by Thursday is who to remove in order to add Guerrier.
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#6 TKGuy

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:51 PM

Is Guerrier a better option than Tonkin?

#7 Sconnie

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:51 PM

Why do we care if they lose florimann?

CF situation can be SS situation if they are not careful

#8 Sconnie

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:52 PM

Is Guerrier a better option than Tonkin?

With an eye to 2015, no

#9 CRArko

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:55 PM

Is Guerrier a better option than Tonkin?


I like Tonkin. I'd vote for replacing Burton. If I had a vote, that is.
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#10 cmathewson

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:13 PM

I think Guerrier is an upgrade over Tonkin for the short term. The later has some things to iron out in his delivery to be more consistent. You can't afford to have the kind of melt down he had the other night if you care about winning, which they should care about. Tonkin has options. Guerrier has an opt out. I think they'll make that move.

I also think Burton's job is in trouble. Maybe Tonkin will go down and get himself straightened out in time to take that in a month or so. From what I have seen, that is optimistic.
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#11 jorgenswest

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:17 PM

Why do we care if they lose florimann?


If it is true that he is a great defender at SS, those skills are rare. Defense saves runs and wins games. He turned a bad throw from Hughes into an out. It could have been runners on second and third no outs top first.

It is a myth that there are lots of great defensive shortstops (or catchers) in the minors. Some teams would care about losing him.

#12 TKGuy

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:20 PM

Well at least the Red Wings are in Columbus starting tomorrow, should make it easy to shuffle the roster. I don't like Santana sitting, so I guess I'd like to see what Nunez can do also since he was back playing today, maybe he's getting close to ready

#13 stringer bell

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:24 PM

Bernier has one skill, a versatile glove. If Escobar is the regular SS, the Twins need to have someone who can hit a little or run a bit as a utility guy. I see the Nuñez played for the Red Wings today. Overall, he would be the better fit as a utility infielder. If Mauer is out for any period of time, DL or not, adding Parmelee and optioning Herrmann makes sense. The Twins still need someone who can play center, unless Hicks is ready in the minimum amount of time. Of course, it may be that the Twins need a center fielder because Hicks isn't a big league hitter.

#14 DocBauer

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:46 PM

Florimon down. It's just not working and he offers no current value other than as a defensive replacement over another good fielder. What?

Bernier for now. He brings a decent glove, can flex to a couple positions, and even if he hits terribly he's probably still a better threat and contributor than Florimon at this point. Sorry, but it's true.

Nunez up to replace Bernier when ready. Younger, a better bat, and some potential still.

Also agree with sending Herrman down, though I still like him as a versatile player who can make contact, hit a bit, show good doubles power with a few HR's tossed in. But he needs to play every day at AAA instead of playing a yo-yo game. I'd rather not DFA him is what I'm saying. I think there are other options to work with.

#15 stringer bell

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 04:41 AM

Florimon down. It's just not working and he offers no current value other than as a defensive replacement over another good fielder. What?

Bernier for now. He brings a decent glove, can flex to a couple positions, and even if he hits terribly he's probably still a better threat and contributor than Florimon at this point. Sorry, but it's true.

Nunez up to replace Bernier when ready. Younger, a better bat, and some potential still.

Also agree with sending Herrman down, though I still like him as a versatile player who can make contact, hit a bit, show good doubles power with a few HR's tossed in. But he needs to play every day at AAA instead of playing a yo-yo game. I'd rather not DFA him is what I'm saying. I think there are other options to work with.

It doesn't make sense to bring up Bernier for a week--a 40-man move would have to be made and if he were quickly demoted, he'd either have to stay on the 40-man or be exposed as a DFA.

Here are the moves I think are warranted right now--Nuñez for Santana (no point in keeping Santana in the majors to sit on the bench), Parmelee for Herrmann (one Chris can't hit and one might have a chance). Arcia for Florimon as soon as Arcia shows he is ready (I'm thinking less than a week). Going to two catchers shouldn't be that big a problem since Pinto has cooled and there would be multiple candidates to DH and play corner OF. Definitely Colabello should only be a DH and 1B and he and Kubel shouldn't be playing every day.

#16 AM.

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 04:57 AM

I like Tonkin. I'd vote for replacing Burton. If I had a vote, that is.


I vote crarko gets a vote.

#17 cmathewson

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:01 AM

According to TD's resident roster and payroll expert, Florimon has used just 2 option years, 2010 and 11.


Well, great. Maybe he can "re"discover his swing in AAA while Nunez becomes the utility guy.
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#18 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:39 AM

Danny Santana hasn't been on the field yet, has he? Was the promotion just to reward the kid with some Major League catering? I assumed that he would have played in at least one of the Baltimore games.
I missed the part where his call up was explained - did the Twins want a longer bench but Nuñez wasn't ready yet? Is Santana expected to play in the Cleveland series?

#19 CRArko

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:53 AM

I missed the part where his call up was explained - did the Twins want a longer bench but Nuñez wasn't ready yet? Is Santana expected to play in the Cleveland series?


Yes, and, how the heck would we know, respectively.
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#20 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:24 AM

right on - I thought maybe it was mentioned on the radio or tv telecast what the plan for using Santana was (I was at the game on Saturday, and missed seeing/hearing Sunday's game live).

#21 tobi0040

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:26 AM

If it is true that he is a great defender at SS, those skills are rare. Defense saves runs and wins games. He turned a bad throw from Hughes into an out. It could have been runners on second and third no outs top first.

It is a myth that there are lots of great defensive shortstops (or catchers) in the minors. Some teams would care about losing him.


There is no question Pedro is a very good defensive shortstop. But his career line in over 600 AB is .208, OBP .269, OPS .569. By continuing to run out a guy like that, you are saying as long as you are good at defense, we don't really care that your bat belongs in low A. I don't think that is the right approach. Especially since he is 27, never really looked very good in the minors, was never a top prospect, etc.

If only we could have seen this coming.

Edited by tobi0040, 05 May 2014 - 07:30 AM.


#22 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:26 AM

CF situation can be SS situation if they are not careful


I'd say the situations are already similar in dearth of talent. CF simply also has a dearth of bodies. But is having four corpses really that much better than having one?

Santana's lack of actvity also seems strange to me. You'd think they'd be using him if they were going to call him up. A middle infielder who can hit but doesn't take walks and with the athletic ability to play SS but possible mental lapses seems exactly like the kind of guy who would use up each and every one of his option years.

Edited by nicksaviking, 05 May 2014 - 08:03 AM.


#23 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:28 AM

No amount of defense makes up for that bat. It just doesn't. 5 at bats a game, vs .5-1 hard play (on average) a game. It just doesn't add up.
Lighten up Francis....

#24 CRArko

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:34 AM

right on - I thought maybe it was mentioned on the radio or tv telecast what the plan for using Santana was (I was at the game on Saturday, and missed seeing/hearing Sunday's game live).


I think the plan was damage control after the Dodgers sweep. It's a fair guess that Danny will appear in some capacity during the Cleveland series.
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#25 tobi0040

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:36 AM

I'd say the situations are already similar in dearth of talent. CF simply also has a dearth of bodies. But is having four corpses really that much better than having one?

Santana's lack of actvity also seems strange to me. You'd think they'd be using him if they were going to call him up. A middle infielder who can hit but doesn't take walks and with the athletic ability to play SS but possible mental lapses seems exactly like the kind of guy who would use up each and everyone of his option years.


If Santana is going to hit .260 or .270, by my account that is another 40 hits or so a year than Pedro will hit (over 600 AB). Let's just agree that he will have defensive lapses and that is ok, especially for a young kid with upside.

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:39 AM

There is no question Pedro is a very good defensive shortstop. But his career line in over 600 AB is .208, OBP .269, OPS .569. By continuing to run out a guy like that, you are saying as long as you are good at defense, we don't really care that your bat belongs in low A. I don't think that is the right approach. Especially since he is 27, never really looked very good in the minors, was never a top prospect, etc.

If only we could have seen this coming.


Indeed. If only some of us saw this coming.

While defensive run saved/allowed can be a bit sketchy, Fangraphs currently has Florimon listed at +12.1 runs saved over his career at shortstop.

At the plate? He's -25.8 runs.

While I'm no math major, when I add up those numbers I see a player who is an overall detriment to his team.

Which pretty much lines up exactly how I eyeballed Florimon in the first place. Good with the glove, a complete menace with the bat that more than offsets anything good he does in the field.

#27 DuluthFan

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

Parmalee has had his shot at the 25 man roster and didn't make the cut. His positions are being capably handled by Colabello and Kubel with Arcia coming back when he is ready.

You would actually lose value for Parmalee by adding him to the 25 man roster now. He has no options left. If he needs to be sent back down, you not only expose him by DFA'ing him but if I'm not mistaken, he can also become a free agent by being DFA'd twice. As he currently is not on the 40 man roster, he can be traded to any team without having to be waived or needing to stick on another team's 25/40 man rosters. He has more value as a trade chip by not needing a roster spot.

Hermann serves a purpose on the roster by having options left. He can be optioned when the injured outfielders return from the DL. Parmalee does not fill that need. If and when Parmalee can put together some good numbers, he can be traded to a team looking to fill an injury opening. The Twins have plenty of outfielders in their system who have not used any of their options that can be added to the 40 man roster.

Where would Parmalee play if he was called up? He can play 1st, DH or one of the corner outfield positions. The last I heard we had Mauer, Colabello, Kubel and Pinto filling those positions with Arcia and Willingham eventually coming back from the DL. And if you remember the previous years, Parmalee was not particularly strong as a pinch hitter. Parmalee has had his chance to make this team. Let him play his way onto another team via a trade.

#28 jokin

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

Is Guerrier a better option than Tonkin?


No... but the clock is ticking on Guerrier's contract stipulations for call-up. They didn't sign him, only to lose him, to Free Agency.

#29 jokin

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:44 AM

Well, great. Maybe he can "re"discover his swing in AAA while Nunez becomes the utility guy.


I'd have Flori trying out AA pitching instead.

#30 CRArko

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:45 AM

I'd be more impressed if all the people who saw Florimon struggling also saw Suzuki raking. At least before they develop bilateral arm breakage from patting themselves on the back.
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