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Giving credit to LEN3 for calling Twins to account on CF situation

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#21 CRArko

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:35 AM

So the general consensus is 12-150? That might earn a number one pick.
Take your time, and do it right. - N. Fury

#22 jokin

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:41 AM

Maybe because they do as many things right as they do wrong? It's not nearly as one-sided as some make it seem on either end of the spectrum.


Maybe.....but tied in with the CF/SS situation is the fact that their isn't one legitimate leadoff man on the 40-man roster. This situation of the last 2 years, in totality, borders on malfeasance.

#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:44 AM

Maybe.....but tied in with the CF/SS situation is the fact that their isn't one legitimate leadoff man on the 40-man roster. This situation of the last 2 years, in totality, borders on malfeasance.


I whole-heartedly agree about shortstop. I was all in favor of picking up someone who could play an MLB shortstop.

Centerfield is a little more difficult. With Buxton on the way and the need to find out what they have in Hicks, going after an established centerfielder just didn't make a lot of sense, not to mention that established centerfielders would shy away from wanting to sign with the Twins for those very reasons.

#24 stringer bell

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:46 AM

The biggest folly is overestimating Aaron Hicks IMHO. He has tools, no doubt, but he's just not shown he can hit major league pitching. The Twins have put the stamp of "full-time CF" on him two straight springs and so far, it hasn't panned out. There should be a legitimate back-up plan for Hicks, not only in the event of injury, but also for ineffectiveness. The secondary problem is not enough depth in the high minors. The Red Wings are using an infielder in center and Kenny Wilson is in New Britain and quite a ways from being a major league ballplayer.

#25 Linus

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:48 AM

Sticking to the title of the thread.....I'm giving LEN3 no credit. In all the years he has covered the Twins, the only thing I've learned from his work is where good restaurants are in Ft. Myers. Anybody even mildly paying attention knew the Twins were one injury away from another centerfield mess. Now that it has happened, he is stating the obvious. Thanks goodness for Twins Daily - you get more meaningful thought and info here in a week than you do from the LEN3 in a year.

#26 nicksaviking

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:10 AM

Maybe because they do as many things right as they do wrong? It's not nearly as one-sided as some make it seem on either end of the spectrum.


A .500 winning percentage isn't going to win anyone a World Series. I expect a better than 50/50 split between positive moves and utter FUBAR.

#27 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:14 AM

A .500 winning percentage isn't going to win anyone a World Series. I expect a better than 50/50 split between positive moves and utter FUBAR.


It's only a 50/50 split if you ignore all the things they're doing in the minors. The Twins have one of the best minor league systems right now, their rotation at Rochester is looking really good, and they've stumbled a bit with their position players lately through injury and/or suspension but it's hard to fault the front office for that.

It's tough to watch the MLB team but there are bright spots there as well. Pinto, Plouffe, Dozier, Mauer, Hughes, the bullpen... All strong points for the team going forward.

#28 sorney

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:15 AM

So the general consensus is 12-150? That might earn a number one pick.


Love it!! If you're going to suck, suck big time!! Go all Astros on it.

#29 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:26 AM

We're calling that play a "folly"? Really?


Folly might be strong, but Hicks made that play difficult. Was it a tough catch? Sure. Was it "I'm going to try and be spiderman and throw myself at the wall" tough?

God no. And it only looked that tough because, once again, Hicks is unable to read the flight path of fly balls without staring at it the whole way. Good outfielders don't do that, you often see them take their eye off and run to a spot (I seem to recall Hunter talking about doing exactly that back in the day) and then pick it up when they get closer to where it's going to land.

I'm sorry the kid got hurt, but he got hurt because he's not all that good out there and he keeps showing that over and over again.

#30 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

Folly might be strong, but Hicks made that play difficult. Was it a tough catch? Sure. Was it "I'm going to try and be spiderman and throw myself at the wall" tough?

God no. And it only looked that tough because, once again, Hicks is unable to read the flight path of fly balls without staring at it the whole way. Good outfielders don't do that, you often see them take their eye off and run to a spot (I seem to recall Hunter talking about doing exactly that back in the day) and then pick it up when they get closer to where it's going to land.

I'm sorry the kid got hurt, but he got hurt because he's not all that good out there and he keeps showing that over and over again.


I really think you're underselling how difficult that play was to finish. Hicks wasn't running full speed but he was moving at a good clip and got leather on the ball.

#31 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:36 AM

I really think you're underselling how difficult that play was to finish. Hicks wasn't running full speed but he was moving at a good clip and got leather on the ball.


He borderline got forearm on the ball. Which means he overran and overjumped it. If he was better at reading the flight path he likely wouldn't have had to go barreling into the wall.

It's not like this is the first time he's made these sorts of mistakes.

#32 nicksaviking

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:39 AM

It's only a 50/50 split if you ignore all the things they're doing in the minors. The Twins have one of the best minor league systems right now, their rotation at Rochester is looking really good, and they've stumbled a bit with their position players lately through injury and/or suspension but it's hard to fault the front office for that.

It's tough to watch the MLB team but there are bright spots there as well. Pinto, Plouffe, Dozier, Mauer, Hughes, the bullpen... All strong points for the team going forward.


I'd actually agree that they do more things right than wrong, but it's still not a good enough percentage for me. I'm excited about many minor leaguers, but there's still never going to be a payoff if it's always the minor leagues that are the positive and the major league club is the failure. They are continually failing in the area that counts most.

#33 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:41 AM

He borderline got forearm on the ball. Which means he overran and overjumped it. If he was better at reading the flight path he likely wouldn't have had to go barreling into the wall.

It's not like this is the first time he's made these sorts of mistakes.


I agree that going back appears to be his biggest weakness as a defender but, again, that's a tough play and I've seen multiple-time Gold Glovers make similar "errors" in calculation while going backwards mid-jump.

It was a damned tough play for any outfielder. We've all seen Hicks do some pretty baffling things in the field but I have a hard time counting that play as one of them.

#34 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:43 AM

I'd actually agree that they do more things right than wrong, but it's still not a good enough percentage for me. I'm excited about many minor leaguers, but there's still never going to be a payoff if it's always the minor leagues that are the positive and the major league club is the failure. They are continually failing in the area that counts most.


I agree that they make too many mistakes on issues that seem pretty obvious to even casual fans. I'm not defending every move they make. I'm simply responding to Mike's implication that the entire front office is indefensible. They do a lot right. I'd like them to do more things right, just like everybody else.

#35 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:46 AM

I agree that going back appears to be his biggest weakness as a defender but, again, that's a tough play and I've seen multiple-time Gold Glovers make similar "errors" in calculation while going backwards mid-jump.

It was a damned tough play for any outfielder. We've all seen Hicks do some pretty baffling things in the field but I have a hard time counting that play as one of them.


It was tough, but if we're going to throw the likes of Kubel, Arcia, Colabello, etc. in the corners than Hicks needs to be able to make those kinds of tough catches. He covered a lot of ground, to his credit, but he was undone by the same thing that seems to make all those tools he has out there still result in an average (at best) centerfielder: he can't seem to read flight paths.

#36 LaBombo

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:49 AM

I really think you're underselling how difficult that play was to finish. Hicks wasn't running full speed but he was moving at a good clip and got leather on the ball.


Nice hustle, good try, we all feel bad that he got hurt, but it was yet another awkward play for an alleged future Gold Glover. He had no idea where he was. He reacted to hitting the wall like a man hit by a bus in his living room.

Aaron Hicks has yet to even resemble a major league ballplayer, at the plate or in the field. At this point the greatest distinction between his Twins career and Tsuyoshi Nishioka's is Hicks' rapidly fading cache of youth-based upside.

He still might turn it around, but my guess is that he won't contribute anything significant before Buxton surpasses him.

And the hand-wringing over how to replace a .178 hitter is a new low in Twins franchise history.

Edited by LaBombo, 02 May 2014 - 09:22 AM.


#37 jokin

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:52 AM

Sticking to the title of the thread.....I'm giving LEN3 no credit. In all the years he has covered the Twins, the only thing I've learned from his work is where good restaurants are in Ft. Myers. Anybody even mildly paying attention knew the Twins were one injury away from another centerfield mess. Now that it has happened, he is stating the obvious. Thanks goodness for Twins Daily - you get more meaningful thought and info here in a week than you do from the LEN3 in a year.


I take small victories where ever we can get them. Not many profiles in courage in the local media crew. This article was pretty uncharacteristicalllly openly mocking of a series of poor decisions on behalf of the Twins.

#38 Brandon

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:54 AM

I'd be ok with Pierre as a back up to Fuld. CF is a stop gap so its not like we are going to find a 5 tool player to fill in. Hicks is our best hope for that. If Fuld and Hicks can have a .320 OBP and steal 20 bases and solid defense that's enough for me from the 8th spot in the lineup for now.

Although I do now concede Florimon needs to sit on the bench at least. I had figured he could hit .620 - .660OPS but apparently not even close.

#39 Siehbiscuit

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:02 AM

I love Hicks' potential, but at some point the production needs to at least show flashes. Carlos Gomez drove many crazy, but he showed some WOW Factor. Hicks had about a two week stretch last year, robbing HR's and then hitting some. This year he has shown a good ability to draw walks. But that is it. The young man's L/R splits are still terrible (.241 vs LH compared to .150 vs RH). His .330 OBP is great in theory but an everyday centerfielder has to be elite in the OF or hit. Hicks can't hit a moving baseball.

He's up there muttering, "Please walk me, please walk me" like a 4th grader seeing pitches from a 6th grader, knwing he can't hit it.

#40 Linus

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:16 AM

The greatest condemnation in this situation is that Hicks has shown no actual production to indicate that he is ready for the majors. One of the Moneyball lessons is to place more importance on actual results and less on projection. Hicks being the regular center fielder is based completely on projection, especially after last year. He should have started in Rochester and learned how to hit. Not only was the a mistake for the big league club but a mistake for his development. The way we are headed two straight lost years for him.