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Article: How Much Longer Will Alex Meyer (and Twins Fans) Wait?

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#41 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:21 AM

In hindsight, Meyer should have been starting in the 4th or 5th position for the Twins from the beginning of the season. As unbelievable as this may have been before the season started, the Twins are hanging in there even though they have played a tough schedule. So in summation: 1) The Twins need him. 2) Meyer has proven he is ready. 3) The other prospects are watching to see how the front office handles this situation, which is a good problem to have. Let's give Meyer the opportunity he has earned.

#42 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:24 AM

And I'm fine with a couple weeks, Brock, especially given that the Twins go on the road Monday for a week.

My point is simply that I'm kind of tired of thinking logically and being deliberate to make sure every move is timed perfectly. I'd like to see a little sense of urgency out of this front office right now; a sign that they're just as tired of the bad starting pitching as fans are.


Absolutely. Personally, I think the right move is to dig down and find out why Pelfrey is throwing more fastballs more slowly than any other point in his career. If he's even slightly injured, you replace him with Deduno immediately.

Then, if Correia is still struggling in mid-to-late May, then you consider calling up Meyer if he's still dominating.

#43 cmathewson

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:26 AM

I think roster space has a lot to do with it for position players but I'm not so sure about pitchers... I think the (maddening at times) bullpen stints for Liriano and Santana had as much to do with controlling innings as rotation space, particularly in the case of Liriano, who was only 22 in 2006.

The Santana situation in 2003 was infuriating, though. He was only 23 at the time but he was so obviously better than some of the junk they were rolling out in the rotation.


The Santana thing is a constant throughout Anderson's tenure. He favors veteran status over any other consideration. This is why Correia started ahead of Hughes and Gibson this year, even though he's the fourth-best pitcher in the rotation, ahead of only Pelfrey, which is not saying much.

I think you can't compare position player development to pitcher development. You can develop as a pitcher in the major leagues much easier than you can as a position player. The top consideration is who is best placed to get outs right now. All pitchers are developing and making adjustments all the time. If Meyer is better right now, they should make room for him. IMHO, he's better than both Pelfrey and Correia right now. By the end of the season, he will be the ace of the staff, without much question.
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#44 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:27 AM

2) Meyer has proven he is ready.


He hasn't even come close to proving he is ready. He's had two dominant starts in a row. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Kyle Gibson was pretty dominant for over 100 innings of AAA ball last season and was absolutely awful when he got the call.

#45 jokin

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

The next (hopefully post-rain) home stand starts May 13th against the Red Sox. That would be the earliest I'd see a move being made that involves messing with the 40-man.


Yep. And as I've posted previously, Meyer's current pitching schedule corresponds pretty well with starts on Tuesday, May 13 and the following Sunday of that Twins homestand.

(And don't the Twins have to do something with Guerrier in the next 2 weeks as well?

#46 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

I might be wrong but I don't believe there's a single instance of Boras doing this with a high profile client.


From what I understand, this is true for hitters, but not as much for pitchers, which I'm guessing has to do with a greater amount of risk to injury..

That said, this is a pet peeve of mine. Boras is an agent and doesn't have ultimate control over the player. Clearly players that hire him want to maximize their value, but the ultimate decision lies with the player, not the agent. Boras may advise against this, but the ultimate decision would like with the player after Boras explains to them the risk/reward.

#47 spycake

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:29 AM

He was actually quite good in the second half of last season.


Pelfrey, second half of 2013, had roughly a 92 ERA+ and averaged less than 5.5 IP per start. Better than his first half, but not sure if I'd call that "quite good". Certainly shouldn't guarantee him much slack in 2014.

Also, to be fair, his rough start in 2014 isn't just a run of the mill, bad-luck rough patch -- it looks fairly epically bad. 15 BB, 8 K, 5 HR in 19.2 IP. That's the kind of trend I want to see the Twins getting in front of with a roster move, not waiting too long to let it play out some more.

#48 amjgt

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:29 AM

I've seen talk of this new and improved changeup, but what's improved about it?

Movement? Lower velocity?

Anyone know?

#49 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:30 AM

The Santana thing is a constant throughout Anderson's tenure. He favors veteran status over any other consideration. This is why Correia started ahead of Hughes and Gibson this year, even though he's the fourth-best pitcher in the rotation, ahead of only Pelfrey, which is not saying much.


I don't think that has much of a bearing on anything other than "protect the younger guys who may not have the confidence to go against the tougher pitchers the first two times through the rotation".

Rotation order has so little bearing on anything that I wonder why people even bring it up.

#50 jokin

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:30 AM

He hasn't even come close to proving he is ready. He's had two dominant starts in a row. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Kyle Gibson was pretty dominant for over 100 innings of AAA ball last season and was absolutely awful when he got the call.



Other issues (like Super 2?) came into play with Gibson's very belated call-up. But if you don't call a guy up, how does one really know if he's ready or not?

#51 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

Also, to be fair, his rough start in 2014 isn't just a run of the mill, bad-luck rough patch -- it looks fairly epically bad. 15 BB, 8 K, 5 HR in 19.2 IP. That's the kind of trend I want to see the Twins getting in front of with a roster move, not waiting too long to let it play out some more.


Which is why I've questioned multiple times whether he's injured. His velocity is down, he's giving up an inordinate number of gopher balls, he's relying less on offspeed pitches (already a weak point of his pitching style), and he's walking too many batters.

If he's even *a little bit* injured, he needs to be out of the rotation immediately.

#52 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

The Twins need to be shopping Correia and Pelfrey now for prospects. The Twins and other teams know what to expect from Correia. He has been consistent and predictable. Every time there is an injury to a starter, Anthony should be on the phone immediately to the injured pitcher's GM and see what can be worked out. Pelfrey will not bring as much on a trade because he is not as predictable as Correia and has pitched worse than Correia.

#53 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

Other issues (like Super 2?) came into play with Gibson's very belated call-up. But if you don't call a guy up, how does one really know if he's ready or not?


They get to watch the guy's film every start. We don't. It's really that simple.

#54 jokin

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:33 AM

I've seen talk of this new and improved changeup, but what's improved about it?

Movement? Lower velocity?

Anyone know?


According to the pertinent article, Meyer was having trouble with his previous off-speed stuff to the point that he was over-relying on the FB. Apparently, the new 3 finger-grip change is a knee buckler with guys setting up for the FB. Will Middlebrooks was a believer, striking out 3 times.

#55 jokin

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:35 AM

They get to watch the guy's film every start. We don't. It's really that simple.


So does someone need to be fired for so badly mis-interpreting Gibson's videos from late last June?

#56 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:37 AM

So does someone need to be fired for so badly mis-interpreting Gibson's videos from late last June?


No. IIRC, Ryan pointed out that he wasn't going after batters before the call-up, which was also Gibson's problem in the Majors. By June/July of last season, the front office no longer had much of a choice. The rotation was so bad that somebody had to step up... I'm sure they were hoping Gibson was that guy, despite statements about consistency before the call-up. Obviously, that didn't work out for them but based on comments, I think they were aware that might be an issue.

#57 spycake

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:39 AM

Meyer doesn't need to keep throwing shutouts. If he continues to miss bats and walks fewer batters, then he forces a decision. My point is that two starts usually don't provide enough information to make an informed decision. Give him some more time and if he's still completely dominating lineups two weeks from now, then you know he's really on to something and isn't succeeding through a healthy dose of dumb luck and bad lineups.


Although I kinda get what you're saying, nobody is basing a Meyer decision on two starts. His early results in 2014, while the first time he's been at AAA, are perfectly consistent with 2013, and basically his pro career.

#58 Mike Sixel

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:41 AM

Basically, Gibson benefited from coming up last year, even though he might not have been ready. Now, he's more ready this year. I'd argue that getting a taste (and either succeeding and staying up, or learning what you need to change) is a better strategy than waiting for some level of perfection. Either way, I want Pelfrey out of the rotation sooner rather than later.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#59 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

Although I kinda get what you're saying, nobody is basing a Meyer decision on two starts. His early results in 2014, while the first time he's been at AAA, are perfectly consistent with 2013, and basically his pro career.


But the changeup is new. He's dominating at a level he didn't show in AA and his new pitch is getting the credit.

Again, I'm not against calling up Meyer soon, I simply believe that showing a bit of prudence and letting him pitch a few more innings in AAA isn't going to kill anybody. Let him show that the changeup is real and that he's truly a dominant pitcher.

#60 Craig Arko

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:46 AM

(And don't the Twins have to do something with Guerrier in the next 2 weeks as well?


May 8th is his current opt-out date. Unfortunately I fear Tonkin instead of Burton would be the casualty. Options and all.
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