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Potential pitching changes

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#1 Brandon

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:27 PM

So far the bullpen has been back to their reliable self since their beginning of the season implosion. The exception has been Burton. His last appearance he pitched a scoreless inning so hopefully he is turning things around. If not I can see a trip to the DL so he can work things out there.

But the rotation has been a different story. Pelfry, Correia, Nolasco and Hughes have not got the job done. I can see Pelfry headed to the bullpen or DL if he has another bad start or 2 and Deduno moving to the rotation. If Pelfry goes to the pen then no additional moves should be needed If Burton also goes on the DL I can see the Twins bringing Guerrier up especially if this is close to his opt out date.

I do see the rotation working things out as the weather gets warmer and we do have reinforcements on the way but this is how I see the first pitching shakeup working out. any thoughts?

#2 Dainir

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:14 PM

For me the question is does the club want to aim for as many wins as possible this year or as many wins as possible in the future.

If its the future, I wouldn't expect many shake ups anytime soon, unless its to bring Deduno into the rotation, and put someone else in the pen. I say this because none of these pitchers are the future for the Twins other than Gibson. The role of these pitchers with the Minnesota Twins over the next year or two is to improve their stock and to become trade bait. Now in order to do that, they need to pitch.


Now, that doesn't mean the starters won't eventually be sent down if they don't perform, its just to early in the season, and has been too cold to make those judgments so far. In two three weeks, if Pelfrey and Nolasco don't show signs of turning things around, expect to see some changes.

True reinforcements are waiting with May and Meyer. But I doubt the Twins will rush either of them to the club anytime soon. So again it will be a few weeks before we see some changes because May and Meyer turn in multiple lights out performances.

Those are my thoughts for now.

#3 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:25 PM

Why is Meyer not yet ready for prime time?

#4 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:27 PM

A couple of things:

1) You don't get to just DL someone b/c they haven't done well. The DL is for injury purposes. If the guy is dealing with some pain, then absolutely DL him, but just putting him there b/c he's been ineffective isn't really an option, and I don't think making up an injury is ever reasonable.

2) I doubt they do anything just yet. The season is barely 3 weeks old. You won't see anything major done until June I'd imagine.

#5 Joe A. Preusser

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:38 PM

For me the question is does the club want to aim for as many wins as possible this year or as many wins as possible in the future.

If its the future, I wouldn't expect many shake ups anytime soon, unless its to bring Deduno into the rotation, and put someone else in the pen. I say this because none of these pitchers are the future for the Twins other than Gibson. The role of these pitchers with the Minnesota Twins over the next year or two is to improve their stock and to become trade bait. Now in order to do that, they need to pitch.


Now, that doesn't mean the starters won't eventually be sent down if they don't perform, its just to early in the season, and has been too cold to make those judgments so far. In two three weeks, if Pelfrey and Nolasco don't show signs of turning things around, expect to see some changes.

True reinforcements are waiting with May and Meyer. But I doubt the Twins will rush either of them to the club anytime soon. So again it will be a few weeks before we see some changes because May and Meyer turn in multiple lights out performances.

Those are my thoughts for now.


How are you defining future? Nolasco is signed for four years, Hughes for three.

#6 DocBauer

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:49 PM

The season is WAY too young to make any changes. Gibson has looked phenomenol, despite being squeezed by every umpire calling his games so far. Hughes was excellent today and his last start until the dreaded "bad inning". Nolasco has been inconsistent, but shown ability and one very good start. I think the surprises so far have been Pelfrey and Correia. Correia seems to also be suffering from the big inning syndrome, but hasn't pitched badly. Pelfrey, on the other hand, seems to be terribly inconsistent. Again, way too early. Let's get past the early games, get in a flow, stretch out arms, (something it didn't seem the Twins really did in ST in my opinion), and get in warmer weather before we make a decision.

May and Myer have been, generally, very impressive, but aren't read yet. Deduno is the wild card and could still see himself in the rotation before the year is out.

No changes though until June rolls around.

#7 Jdosen

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:04 PM

If in another 4-5 starts Pelfrey has not starting pitching at least competently, I would love to see him DL'd or sent to the bullpen while Meyer or May gets the call to the big leagues. If and when Pelfrey proves that he is healthy/competent enough to start again, you either send Meyer/May back to Roch or make way for them to stay up for good by dealing Correia who is in the last year of his deal.
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#8 Rosterman

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:25 PM

The Twins clearly have some depth in the bullpen. But unless Burton changes course for the better, and until Swarzak gets more innings under his belt, neither is tradable in the least. And then only if another team has suffered an injury that would make risking even a low-level minor league for either of the above.

Yes, the Twins do have Tonkin and Guerrier who show the ability to step into the mix. But would they ake the palce of anyone throwing well, or anyone who the Twins have half-an-investment in, is beyond me.
Deduno will step into the rotation if a starter goes down. May would be the next callup. I don't see the Twins doing anything with Meyer until September at the earliest or next spring. He's not on the 40-man. The Twins could also call up Logan Darnell whatever, too.

But it is still too early. Nolasco will find his rhythm. Correia will be himself and thus be tradebait in July. Pelfrey is a hope.
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#9 Highabove

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:26 PM

The Twins would be foolish to bring up 35 year old Matt Guerrier. Their suppose to be rebuilding.
Ryan Presley should be the first reliever up. Also keep an eye on Lester Oliveros.

Edited by Highabove, 21 April 2014 - 02:42 AM.


#10 kab21

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

Nolasco and Hughes aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The Twins spent big money on them and they will be starting.

Correia is basically doing what he did last year with a little higher ERA so he will stay.

Gibson obviously isn't going anywhere.

Pelfrey has been awful in every aspect and is only signed for this year. I could see him getting swapped for Deduno in the bullpen after another start or two if this continues.

Both May and Meyer are ready to be called up but Meyer won't be called up because of super 2. May is as ready as he will ever be but I don't hold much optimism for him. I also don't think anything is hurt by either of them spending some time in AAA but if injuries happen there is no reason either of them couldn't be called up.

#11 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:08 PM

Nolasco and Hughes aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The Twins spent big money on them and they will be starting.

Correia is basically doing what he did last year with a little higher ERA so he will stay.

Gibson obviously isn't going anywhere.

Pelfrey has been awful in every aspect and is only signed for this year. I could see him getting swapped for Deduno in the bullpen after another start or two if this continues.

Both May and Meyer are ready to be called up but Meyer won't be called up because of super 2. May is as ready as he will ever be but I don't hold much optimism for him. I also don't think anything is hurt by either of them spending some time in AAA but if injuries happen there is no reason either of them couldn't be called up.


Pelfrey is signed through 2015.

#12 drivlikejehu

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:13 PM

Neither Meyer nor May are ready to be called up.

#13 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:21 PM

Neither Meyer nor May are ready to be called up.


I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on May.
It seems to me he's about as ready as he's ever going to be.
He's 24 years old, and has started the season with a 16:3 K/BB ratio so far, which is a pretty big improvement for him.
I havent seen his starts though, so I'm wondering what you've seen that he's not ready.

#14 Sconnie

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:30 PM

Corriea is performing almost exactly the same as last year. Nolasco has looked better his last couple starts. Hughes got it done today. Gibson has been a bright spot. A tough start by 4/5 of the rotation is a bitter pill to swallow, but a tough start is nothing to get worried about for a seasoned veteran pitcher. The worry doesn't stack, each player is evaluated independently.

#15 Sconnie

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:31 PM

Pelfrey has had 4 good innings, it's not too late to figure it out.

#16 kab21

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:49 PM

Neither Meyer nor May are ready to be called up.


Neither Meyer nor May are at a point where they need to be called up but they are ready to be called up. They are both 24 and have pitched in AA. Meyer doesn't have many innings at advanced levels but he wouldn't be damaged by some exposure at the big league level. He might not stick the first time around but he's the type of pitcher that could take off like some of the other young MLB pitchers have in recent years. Mays is getting close to as ready as he will ever be after 700 MiLB innings. His problem is that he isn't a very good prospect.

Pelfrey is signed through 2015.

Oops I forgot about that extra year since it was a completely pointless signing in the first place. He still completely stinks and I would have no problem with him moving to the bullpen until an injury happened.

#17 stringer bell

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

The Twins would be foolish to bring up 35 year old Matt Guerrier. Their suppose to be rebuilding.
Alex Presley should be the first reliever up. Also keep an eye on Lester Oliveros.

The Twins have one extra reliever right now. Alex Presley is a backup outfielder for the Astros. Ryan Pressly is the reliever who spent all of last year with the Twins.

#18 Dainir

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:03 PM

How are you defining future? Nolasco is signed for four years, Hughes for three.



The focus was more on Pelfrey, Correia, and Deduno in terms of not the future of the team, none of which are locked beyond 2015, and all of which are 30 or older. Even Nolasco is 31, so while he may be signed for 4 years, its unlikely he will be the core member of the team in the long run.

Hughes at 27 he has the potential to stick around a while, especially if he shapes up as a pitcher.

#19 Lonestar

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:05 PM

Hughes was excellent today and his last start until the dreaded "bad inning".

In Hughes' bad inning, he did not give up a HR or BB, if I remember correctly. Sounds like the confluence of BABIP and a nail that wouldn't let him throw his curve ball.

#20 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:24 PM

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on May.
It seems to me he's about as ready as he's ever going to be.
He's 24 years old, and has started the season with a 16:3 K/BB ratio so far, which is a pretty big improvement for him.
I havent seen his starts though, so I'm wondering what you've seen that he's not ready.


To answer your question, sample size. They may be ready. They may not. 3 starts doesn't determine if either guy is ready. I'd call them up 3 starts in if someone got hurt and you needed a body... not to replace anyone.

If there's another reason, it would be 40 man related. I'm not sure offhand if they are on the 40 man or not, but if they aren't, they aren't getting called up until after guys on the 40 get their crack first.

#21 drivlikejehu

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:45 PM

May spent the past 2 years being a below average AA pitcher. And he wasn't really young for the league or anything, he's just is an extreme flyball pitcher who walked a lot of guys.

Three starts isn't enough to know if his control is really better. And even if it is, his overall profile is not overly encouraging.

#22 nicksaviking

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:01 PM

May spent the past 2 years being a below average AA pitcher. And he wasn't really young for the league or anything, he's just is an extreme flyball pitcher who walked a lot of guys.

Three starts isn't enough to know if his control is really better. And even if it is, his overall profile is not overly encouraging.


Which part of his profile isn't encouraging? He's a 6'5" workhorse who is among the league leader in strikeouts at every level he's been at. Besides the control, what else do you want from him?

#23 drivlikejehu

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

Which part of his profile isn't encouraging? He's a 6'5" workhorse who is among the league leader in strikeouts at every level he's been at. Besides the control, what else do you want from him?


His two main pitches are a straight fastball that gets few groundballs, and a breaking ball that fools minor leaguers a lot more than it's going to fool big leaguers.

To put things in perspective - May is a more extreme flyball pitcher than Phil Hughes. Without making some adjustments I don't see how he can be an MLB starter.

#24 Siehbiscuit

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:25 PM

I think you're stereotyping a little too much with May. He was NOT below average at AA. He wasn't fantastic, but he was still pretty good. He made many fans and analysts Top 10 Twins prospect list in the best farm system in baseball. He looks to be a great innings eater and can strike people out. His control has actually improved tremendously. He may not be Greg Maddux (or even Nick Blackburn) in the control department, but he has continued to improve this weakness This year's start is continuing on that trend. He has looked very good this year.

#25 drivlikejehu

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:36 PM

His ERA was about a half run above league average in 2013, and worse in 2012, quite bad really. Out of 37 pitchers that threw over 100 innings last year, he was 29th in ERA. So maybe I should have said "far below average."

#26 Brandon

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:56 PM

A couple of things:

1) You don't get to just DL someone b/c they haven't done well. The DL is for injury purposes. If the guy is dealing with some pain, then absolutely DL him, but just putting him there b/c he's been ineffective isn't really an option, and I don't think making up an injury is ever reasonable.

2) I doubt they do anything just yet. The season is barely 3 weeks old. You won't see anything major done until June I'd imagine.


You also don't go from pitching solid to pitching terrible without an injury. Pelfry is extremely wild. to throw mechanics off that much he might be concealing an injury.... I didn't say they would definately go on the DL. but between now and the time it takes to make a move new information may be revealed thus leading to the DL. I'll make sure to enunciate everything next time instead of writing quickly.

#27 Brandon

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

also I don't think they'll wait till June if Pelfry is still walking 4 per 5 innings and if Buron is giving up 2 or 3 runs per outing.

I can see the Twins looking to bring up Guerrier to see if he can still pitch and moving Pelfry to the pen and letting Deduno start in about another start or two. I think the Twins management really want to see the Twins win close to 80 games this year and being a little more impatient this season then in seasons past due to options available.

#28 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:02 PM

To answer your question, sample size. They may be ready. They may not. 3 starts doesn't determine if either guy is ready. I'd call them up 3 starts in if someone got hurt and you needed a body... not to replace anyone.

If there's another reason, it would be 40 man related. I'm not sure offhand if they are on the 40 man or not, but if they aren't, they aren't getting called up until after guys on the 40 get their crack first.


Yes, I agree.
The poster i quoted said definitively he is NOT ready. I was curious what he's seen to know that for sure.

#29 kab21

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:23 PM

May spent the past 2 years being a below average AA pitcher. And he wasn't really young for the league or anything, he's just is an extreme flyball pitcher who walked a lot of guys.

Three starts isn't enough to know if his control is really better. And even if it is, his overall profile is not overly encouraging.


This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that he's as ready as he will ever be. The problem is that I don't think he's a really good prospect.

#30 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

May spent the past 2 years being a below average AA pitcher. And he wasn't really young for the league or anything, he's just is an extreme flyball pitcher who walked a lot of guys..


Got to love baseball reference new "age" feature. Here is May's page. The negative numbers in that column are the years he was younger than average for the league. The fact is that he has been young for the league at every step of his career and right now he is 3 years younger than the average AAA pitcher.

And if you look at the "average AA pitcher", you will find that he struck out much fewer than May and had higher FIP than May as well...
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