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Unwritten Rules are Not Smart

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#41 Craig Arko

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:39 AM

And cartoons ...


And their younger siblings.

#42 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:01 AM

And cartoons ...


Except the news is not making the stuff happening, it is saying what happened.....all the last three posts are...are logical fallacies about why we can't rip baseball for violence.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#43 Craig Arko

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:10 AM

Except the news is not making the stuff happening, it is saying what happened.....all the last three posts are...are logical fallacies about why we can't rip baseball for violence.


And the evidence that baseball makes violence happen is what; because people in this thread say so?

#44 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:18 AM

Just so long as your rip the other sports for the same thing.


I would rip the news, but the rest aren't equivalent issues. In other sports there is thuggery and brawling (the vast majority of which I don't condone, but at least understand) but it is almost exclusively in retaliation for rule violations the refs didn't catch.

Only in baseball do they punish celebrating on the field or other made-up rules because of awful cases of butthurt. It doesn't happen in football. (The league fines, but only for egregious celebrating) It doesn't happen in hockey. (Goal celebrations are common) And it doesn't happen in basketball unless it's egregious. ONLY in baseball does celebrating an achievement warrant violence. ONLY in baseball does a brawl erupt because you did something perfectly within the rules. (Like..bunt against a shift. Or steal a base with a lead)

So no, I won't rip the other sports. Baseball is uniquely obnoxious in this regard.

#45 zenser

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:20 AM

I tend to agree with Dan Gladden, who mentions from time to time on the air, that the score board will dictate a few things. Whether it is bunting for a hit in the first inning, bunting to break up a no hitter, stealing bases with a big lead, showboating a solo homer with a big lead or if you are down a few runs, all of these depend on what the situation is. It seems that the umps are kind of stepping in early and when they issue a warning when someone gets hit. It used to be that if a guy hits a homer and admires it, he gets hit the next time. The next inning, the lead off guy gets hit and it ended. Now they issue a warning without being able to get one back. If it goes beyond that, step in. Let the players police themselves.

#46 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:28 AM

Only in baseball do they punish celebrating on the field or other made-up rules because of awful cases of butthurt. It doesn't happen in football. (The league fines, but only for egregious celebrating) It doesn't happen in hockey. (Goal celebrations are common) And it doesn't happen in basketball unless it's egregious. ONLY in baseball does celebrating an achievement warrant violence.


Every football game has players pushing and punching each other after the play, usually b/c someone is celebrating their physical achievement over somebody else.

#47 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:32 AM

Every football game has players pushing and punching each other after the play, usually b/c someone is celebrating their physical achievement over somebody else.


No, pushing and punching usually continues because it's a physical game. Football is a violent game and sometimes that persists beyond the whistle. That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Baseball interrupts a non-physical game to start altercations about things that aren't even rules violations!

The only equivalent I can remember in football to what baseball does is when Owens celebrated on the Dallas 50 yard line and got smeared. That would be a fair comparison.

#48 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:33 AM

I think this bears repeating because this is the crux of my issue:

ONLY in baseball does a brawl erupt because you did something perfectly within the rules. (Like..bunt against a shift. Or steal a base with a lead)

#49 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:59 AM

And the evidence that baseball makes violence happen is what; because people in this thread say so?


I never said it did....the other side is saying showboating and stuff is bad for kids....I'm saying if that is bad, then violence is worse.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#50 Craig Arko

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:02 AM

I never said it did....the other side is saying showboating and stuff is bad for kids....I'm saying if that is bad, then violence is worse.


And we have to take sides, because?
"Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars." - Old Serbian proverb

#51 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:02 AM

I'll repeat this from yesterday......if there was a work environment where people got verbally abused for wearing blue shirts (for no reason other than it has always been that way)....would people here defend that? Because that's what people are doing..... defending throwing dangerous objects at people that celebrate an achievement.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#52 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

And we have to take sides, because?


Most arguments have sides, that doesn't mean that we can't respect each other, or like each other, it means that we are arguing sides on a position.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#53 Craig Arko

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:06 AM

Most arguments have sides, that doesn't mean that we can't respect each other, or like each other, it means that we are arguing sides on a position.


Is that an unwritten rule?
"Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars." - Old Serbian proverb

#54 ashbury

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:16 AM

Is that an unwritten rule?


It's written:

http://twinsdaily.co...-September-2013

:)

#55 Craig Arko

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:22 AM

It's written:

http://twinsdaily.co...-September-2013

:)


Then it must be smart.
"Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars." - Old Serbian proverb

#56 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:42 AM

I think this bears repeating because this is the crux of my issue:

ONLY in baseball does a brawl erupt because you did something perfectly within the rules. (Like..bunt against a shift. Or steal a base with a lead)


Again, that's not true. Fights happen in every sport for many different reasons but showing up an opponent (disrespecting an opponent in some form) is common in all. Baseball has one advantage (disadvantage?) in that they play 162 games in a season and maybe a team will have one real fight a year and maybe 3 things where the benches empty and nothing happens. This little clip on youtube shows a few fights from last season in the NFL and the Giants were involved in at least two in only a 16 game schedule. Ditto with the NBA:

#57 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:54 AM

Or one could say: Baseball, along with golf, amateur wrestling, and tennis, has a history of good manners. Baseball, more so than basketball, soccer, or football, is a team sport in which there are intense individual duels, batter against pitcher. I think in a sport, the more individuals are pitted against individuals, the more good manners are required, such as no showing up the other individual. I may be totally off base here, but I wonder.

#58 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:04 PM

Again, how is it bad manners to flip your bat? Intrinsically, how is it bad manners? How does it show them up? HE was celebrating a big hit, he wasnt' saying "you suck".....

And I don't care about other sports, we don't need to fix every sport before we can fix only 1 sport.....that's just an attempt to fix nothing because we can't fix everything. It's an awful way to run the world.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#59 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:12 PM

Again, how is it bad manners to flip your bat? Intrinsically, how is it bad manners? How does it show them up? HE was celebrating a big hit, he wasnt' saying "you suck".....


It's a gesture that has a real meaning behind it that the players understand. Most gestures, if you just ignored it or didn't know what it meant, mean nothing. A bat flip might not mean anything to you but it sure has meaning to the players on the field.

#60 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:17 PM

Might as well get mad at the weather, then. And how do we know what Thome or gomez or any other bat flipper is thinking? And who cares if Gomez is flipping his bat like I flip my middle finger? Why let any of that bother you? No one is actually hurt by this action, we don't know the motivation for the action, and yet people condone throwing projectiles at others at high speeds to keep them in line.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins.