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25th Roster Spot

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#1 jorgenswest

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:08 PM

When Arcia and a Willingham return, it could come down to choosing from the following for the 25

13th pitcher - Tonkin
3rd catcher - Herrmann
5th OF/CF2 - Mastroianni
2nd utility - Nunez

The Twins management might say there is little reason to discuss, but which role is most valuable to the Twins right now?

#2 iTwins

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:13 PM

I'd say Herrmann simply because his presence on the roster allows Gardy to DH Pinto. (Of course, he COULD DH Pinto without Herrmann, but I don't think we're getting anywhere on that argument).

I'd also like to see Tonkin stick around, but that'd require a few more moves.

#3 Thrylos

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:18 PM

When Arcia and a Willingham return, it could come down to choosing from the following for the 25

13th pitcher - Tonkin
3rd catcher - Herrmann
5th OF/CF2 - Mastroianni
2nd utility - Nunez

The Twins management might say there is little reason to discuss, but which role is most valuable to the Twins right now?


Nunez is not on the 25-man. He was the 26th man for the second game of the double header. Back with Rochester.
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#4 John Bonnes

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:38 PM

I'd vote Herrmann, too, for the same reason. But I'd be happy to keep Tonkin around.

i wonder if there is any chance it's Burton if he continues to struggle.

#5 jorgenswest

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

Nunez is not on the 25-man. He was the 26th man for the second game of the double header. Back with Rochester.


I was aware. It seemed a reasonable option to consider in the role the Twins envisioned Bartlett.

#6 Sconnie

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:29 PM

Considering the starters are pitching longer and stronger, I think Tonkin goes down first. I think Arcia will come back before hammer, and might go down when Willingham is ready.

#7 WLFINN

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:36 PM

Only way I wanna see Nunez up is if he performs to the extent we can't justify keeping him in AAA...or if Florimon or Escobar gets hurt...... also would like to see Arcia get his timing down in Rochester with everyday playing time before coming back

Edited by WLFINN, 18 April 2014 - 09:39 PM.
additional info


#8 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:38 PM

Herrmann is staying. Tonkin will replace Burton soon enough.

#9 jorgenswest

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

Herrmann gets Pinto in the game at DH.

However when Willingham and Arcia return, I would think Colabello is the DH. In that case, Pinto needs to get his starts at catcher. I don't see how Herrmann gets any playing time in the outfield or behind the plate.

I do see a value in Mastroianni in backing up in CF and pinch running. Unfortunately he swings from Hicks' stronger side and isn't a good fit for giving a day off against a tough righty.

I see more value in Nunez playing a super utility role. Pinch running. Pinch hitting for Florimon. Occasional starts in infield when a fly ball pitcher is pitching. I hope he continues to play the OF in AAA. They don't have a CF right now so put him there. Maybe he can be a Bonifacio type role player on this team for a handful of years.

#10 jokin

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

Herrmann gets Pinto in the game at DH.

However when Willingham and Arcia return, I would think Colabello is the DH. In that case, Pinto needs to get his starts at catcher. I don't see how Herrmann gets any playing time in the outfield or behind the plate.

I do see a value in Mastroianni in backing up in CF and pinch running. Unfortunately he swings from Hicks' stronger side and isn't a good fit for giving a day off against a tough righty.

I see more value in Nunez playing a super utility role. Pinch running. Pinch hitting for Florimon. Occasional starts in infield when a fly ball pitcher is pitching. I hope he continues to play the OF in AAA. They don't have a CF right now so put him there. Maybe he can be a Bonifacio type role player on this team for a handful of years.


As noted in another thread, Nunez has never played CF in the majors or minors. It's kind of wishful thinking in hoping that he can somehow fulfill that difficult role. And there's always the danger that Hicks is hurt or plays himself out of the lineup, they need to make a move to make the CF situation less tenuous- Mastro has lost his 2012 speed and appears pretty overmatched at the plate.

#11 strumdatjag

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:01 AM

Burton looked a little better last night. Better than utterly lousy, but still better. So, I expect the Twins will stick with him a little bit longer.

#12 jorgenswest

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

As noted in another thread, Nunez has never played CF in the majors or minors. It's kind of wishful thinking in hoping that he can somehow fulfill that difficult role. And there's always the danger that Hicks is hurt or plays himself out of the lineup, they need to make a move to make the CF situation less tenuous- Mastro has lost his 2012 speed and appears pretty overmatched at the plate.


I don't doubt that finding any major league role that fits Nunez is some wishful thinking.

I wonder where super utility players (IF/OF) like Bonifacio are developed. In his case, he played middle infield in the minors and arrived at age 22. He first played CF in the majors in 2009 and in 2010 he played 18 games of CF in the minors at age 25. He not a good CF or a good SS, but has an important role. I would guess that virtually all players who end up in a utility role start as middle infielders exclusively in the minors.

Why not play Nunez some in CF at AAA? Farris and Rahl are the other options in Rochester.

#13 PseudoSABR

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:27 PM

As mentioned when Arcia and Willingham come back from the DL, Pinto becomes third in the DH depth chart (with one of Kubel/Colabello returning to the bench). Given that, Hermann's value on the bench is pretty limited, if he's not enabling Pinto to DH.

Nunez' bat is probably more useful than the alternatives given the positions he can play. CF is only a problem for a limited amount of innings if Hicks gets hurt/ejected; throw a mid infielder out there, cross your fingers, and send the jet to Rochester.

I'd really like to see Escobar take some starts from Florimon so we can see if his bat and defense can hold up once exposed. His role is questionable as (supposedly) Florimon provides better defense and (supposedly) Nunez has the better bat; if either isn't true, I'd like to find out.

#14 jokin

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:49 PM

I don't doubt that finding any major league role that fits Nunez is some wishful thinking.

I wonder where super utility players (IF/OF) like Bonifacio are developed. In his case, he played middle infield in the minors and arrived at age 22. He first played CF in the majors in 2009 and in 2010 he played 18 games of CF in the minors at age 25. He not a good CF or a good SS, but has an important role. I would guess that virtually all players who end up in a utility role start as middle infielders exclusively in the minors.

Why not play Nunez some in CF at AAA? Farris and Rahl are the other options in Rochester.


Absolutely Nunez should be getting reps in CF if they presume him for the Super-Util role. You basically have 2 Clete Thomas-lite guys in Farris and Rahl. Of the two, only Rahl has any significant minor league time in CF and both have little or no major league time logged over their 9 year professional careers. Then there's Mastro, less his 2012 speed, which would be a continued disaster at the plate should Hicks get hurt or need a demotion to fix his swing and/or approach.

Here's the Gardy take on Nunez going to the OF:

Nunez also has seen time in right field for the Red Wings, but Gardenhire said reports were that he was “just like an infielder playing outfield would be.”

Edited by jokin, 19 April 2014 - 09:57 PM.


#15 jokin

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:56 PM

As mentioned when Arcia and Willingham come back from the DL, Pinto becomes third in the DH depth chart (with one of Kubel/Colabello returning to the bench). Given that, Hermann's value on the bench is pretty limited, if he's not enabling Pinto to DH.

Nunez' bat is probably more useful than the alternatives given the positions he can play. CF is only a problem for a limited amount of innings if Hicks gets hurt/ejected; throw a mid infielder out there, cross your fingers, and send the jet to Rochester.

I'd really like to see Escobar take some starts from Florimon so we can see if his bat and defense can hold up once exposed. His role is questionable as (supposedly) Florimon provides better defense and (supposedly) Nunez has the better bat; if either isn't true, I'd like to find out.


Unless something's changed radically, there's no "(supposedly)" about Nunez having the better bat. And if you watched the game today, coupled with the absurd presumption that Bartlett was once the backup CFer, the Twins previous strategy of throwing a middle infielder out to join the likes of Arcia, Willingham, Colabello and Kubel is going to cause mass revolt among the Twins pitching corps. Mastro can probably fill in for a 15-day DL stint, but what if Hicks is incapacitated longer than that?- I never want to relive "The Year of Clete" again- yet that's what we're looking at. FWIW, Gardy said that Nunez plays OF like an IFer.

#16 jorgenswest

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

Unless something's changed radically, there's no "(supposedly)" about Nunez having the better bat. And if you watched the game today, coupled with the absurd presumption that Bartlett was once the backup CFer, the Twins previous strategy of throwing a middle infielder out to join the likes of Arcia, Willingham, Colabello and Kubel is going to cause mass revolt among the Twins pitching corps. Mastro can probably fill in for a 15-day DL stint, but what if Hicks is incapacitated longer than that?- I never want to relive "The Year of Clete" again- yet that's what we're looking at. FWIW, Gardy said that Nunez plays OF like an IFer.


...are you saying you would have Mastro as the 25th man when Arcia and Willingham returns given his defensive skill in CF? Herrmann? 13th pitcher?

I think that is the discussion. We could argue the many flaws of a 25th man, but which has the most to offer?

#17 Buck Nasty

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:00 AM

I just don't see how a team can carry four DH types on an active roster (Willingham, Arcia, Kubel, Collabello), especially since Mauer clogs up 1st Base. Collabello has been doing fine as DH - he should stay. Kubel has been swinging a good bat- he stays. That leaves Willingham/Arcia. I think Mastro stays up and Arcia goes down to find his swing. They just don't have enough spots to hide that many bad fielders. Mastro becomes the pinch runner/late inning defensive replacement for Kubel/Willingham.

#18 cmathewson

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:55 AM

I'd say Herrmann simply because his presence on the roster allows Gardy to DH Pinto. (Of course, he COULD DH Pinto without Herrmann, but I don't think we're getting anywhere on that argument).

I'd also like to see Tonkin stick around, but that'd require a few more moves.


I don't think Pinto will get that many DH opportunities when Colabello and Kubel are sharing the DH role.
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#19 mike wants wins

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

Cut Burton or one of the other older RH RP. Tonkin is better than them right now.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#20 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:05 AM

I just don't see how a team can carry four DH types on an active roster (Willingham, Arcia, Kubel, Collabello), especially since Mauer clogs up 1st Base. Collabello has been doing fine as DH - he should stay. Kubel has been swinging a good bat- he stays. That leaves Willingham/Arcia. I think Mastro stays up and Arcia goes down to find his swing. They just don't have enough spots to hide that many bad fielders. Mastro becomes the pinch runner/late inning defensive replacement for Kubel/Willingham.


I agree with this. Kubel has been fielding well though. Willingham/Kubel ought to become a LF platoon. Colabello I guess stays in RF for now, then full time DH as long as he's hitting. Pinto hopefully taking on the full time catcher role as Willingham/Arcia return. In the offseason, Willingham talked about his desire to sign with the Twins long term but between the two, we're more likely to see Kubel back next year than Willingham.

#21 cmathewson

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:12 AM

Unless something's changed radically, there's no "(supposedly)" about Nunez having the better bat. And if you watched the game today, coupled with the absurd presumption that Bartlett was once the backup CFer, the Twins previous strategy of throwing a middle infielder out to join the likes of Arcia, Willingham, Colabello and Kubel is going to cause mass revolt among the Twins pitching corps. Mastro can probably fill in for a 15-day DL stint, but what if Hicks is incapacitated longer than that?- I never want to relive "The Year of Clete" again- yet that's what we're looking at. FWIW, Gardy said that Nunez plays OF like an IFer.


You seem to be arguing that Mastro should be the 25th man, and I concur. As to your "year of Clete" comment, I think I get it. We suffered through six weeks of Clete because Hicks was sent down and Mastro was hurt. Given that, it was unbelievable that they dumped Presley. But it is what it is. Unless they sign Fuld or someone, they're in much the same position this year. I think they're less likely to have both center fielders go down. But it is possible.
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#22 spsdrock

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:24 AM

I honestly would like the front office some how make a trade of Willy and Burton together for something. It is just two players that are kind of in the way, so to speak, for other players.

#23 CRArko

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:08 AM

I honestly would like the front office some how make a trade of Willy and Burton together for something. It is just two players that are kind of in the way, so to speak, for other players.


I thinks it's the "for something" part that is the sticking point here.

#24 PseudoSABR

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:17 PM

Well, looks like it's Fuld.

#25 jorgenswest

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:21 PM

Well, looks like it's Fuld.


Outfield defense is probably the greatest need. Fuld is better than Mastro.