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Article: Has the clock run out on Jared Burton?

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#21 jorgenswest

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:22 PM

A fine example of someone tradable mid-season last year that the Twins didn't move.


If I recall he struggled for a stretch mid season. I think a terrible month of June losing his 8th inning role. Setup relievers have little trade value. Too many teams have one too offer. Struggling set up men are worth very little. I wouldn't think he was too tradable with the extra year of commitment an additional anchor.

#22 Shane Wahl

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:58 PM

A fine example of someone tradable mid-season last year that the Twins didn't move.


Exactly, and it's pretty frustrating. Now . . . good lord what to get for him. If I were in charge I would trade him and pay most of this year's salary for any mid-tier prospect. Fien and Duensing next.

#23 Thrylos

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:12 AM

A fine example of someone tradable mid-season last year that the Twins didn't move.


Indeed. And add Fien and Thielbar to that equation. The Twins never sell high. They wait for players to bomb and then they release them...
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#24 Linus

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:25 AM

I am mostly disappointed with his performance because, in my master plan, he (along with Corriea and Willingham) would be moved at the trade deadline for whatever they can get for him. I don't think reliable bullpen pitchers are as easy to find as some, but the Twins appear to have some depth in their bullpen so they really should be moving on from Burton. I guess the question really is what is the best method to do it.

#25 Willihammer

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:37 AM

Well I must have missed the widespread demands to trade Burton over the past year. I can't recall a single one in fact.

Burton tanking is no big deal as long as the Twins don't let it become one. Demote him, cut him, whatever. They have backups.

Just don't continue to play him if he stinks.

#26 spycake

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:00 AM

If I recall he struggled for a stretch mid season. I think a terrible month of June losing his 8th inning role.


Yup. Actually, June 6-18, 2013, Burton pitched 5 games and allowed 8 runs, same as 2014 so far. Actually, June 6 thru July 1 last year, he had 10 games, 12 runs. Followed it up with a stretch of 19 games, 6 hits, zero runs. (We won't discuss how he pitched after that -- suffice to say, he closed out the season in classic 2011-2013 Twins fashion. :) )

As to the extension, Burton's $3.25 mil isn't hurting the team in the least bit. Heck, his roster spot isn't even under that much pressure -- Tonkin is it, really, and they've already got him on the roster thanks to another guy on the DL.

If his poor pitching continues over the next few weeks, we can think about cutting him loose. Otherwise, try to get him back to general 2012-2013 levels, and if he gets on a roll again, maybe someone will want a flyer on him for August/September (or 2015 with his $3.6 mil team option). Not that he will bring back much in trade, or provide us with a whole lot performance-wise in the intervening months, but it wouldn't take much to justify his modest salary.

#27 spycake

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:10 AM

Indeed. And add Fien and Thielbar to that equation. The Twins never sell high. They wait for players to bomb and then they release them...


You're talking about three modestly successful middle relievers who were freely available to any MLB team less than 2 years earlier. You're never going to "sell high" on those -- at best, you might be able to "sell slightly higher" but the return is usually going to be pretty minimal regardless. Very few Hector Carrasco's produce even a Lew Ford -- if you force a trade, you are more likely to get Alex Presley, or Pedro Hernandez.

With that level of return, if the player is inexpensive (and particularly if they have options like Fien and Thielbar), you're probably better off keeping them.

#28 Beezer07

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:16 AM

Well I must have missed the widespread demands to trade Burton over the past year. I can't recall a single one in fact.

Burton tanking is no big deal as long as the Twins don't let it become one. Demote him, cut him, whatever. They have backups.

Just don't continue to play him if he stinks.


I was thinking the same thing last night when I read some of these comments. If anything, I remember many, many loud voices saying Burton was "untouchable" or one of the guys we absolutely shouldn't trade...which seemed extremely silly to me. (Although I can't remember if the voices were as loud last season as they were two seasons ago.)

This is why you don't sign relievers long term, and you don't hesitate to trade them if their value appears really high. They don't pitch enough innings to command the $$$ and they're too prone to hot and cold streaks given the nature of their roles

#29 UCLA_YANKEE_COLA

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

When was the last time a 30 something setup man was traded for anything that mattered?

#30 Dantes929

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:35 AM

Well I must have missed the widespread demands to trade Burton over the past year. I can't recall a single one in fact.
.

Just like you won't find a single post opposing signing Mauer to a long term contract back in 09 but now they all claim they knew it was a bad deal.
I remember saying it was a bad baseball decision but I wasn't opposed to it because of the PR. I also said there was no need to do it at the time because his value would never be higher than after an MVP season anyway. I still won't criticize the contract though. They kind of had to given the situation at the time and he is still a very good baseball player. People forget the really great streaks of hitting he had before 2011 and I still believe he has some of those streaks left in him.

#31 Beezer07

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:37 AM

When was the last time a 30 something setup man was traded for anything that mattered?


Matt Capps is 30 now, and he was once traded for something that mattered, and he really wasn't much better than a setup man. Does that count?

(yeah yeah, revisionist history.)

#32 Dantes929

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:38 AM

Whoops. Got off topic. Crain and Guerrier went through similar periods of ineffectiveness. No reason to give up on these guys but no reason to keep him in the same 8th inning position either. Is he eligible for demotion? If a player agrees to it does it matter if the team ran out of options? I think Crain was sent down twice, rebounded and came back better than ever.

#33 jokin

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:50 AM

Just like you won't find a single post opposing signing Mauer to a long term contract back in 09 but now they all claim they knew it was a bad deal.
I remember saying it was a bad baseball decision but I wasn't opposed to it because of the PR. I also said there was no need to do it at the time because his value would never be higher than after an MVP season anyway. I still won't criticize the contract though. They kind of had to given the situation at the time and he is still a very good baseball player. People forget the really great streaks of hitting he had before 2011 and I still believe he has some of those streaks left in him.


That's simply not true about Mauer- there was a legion of fans and writers (but not Patrick Reusse) who pointed out:
-how the mega-signing might cripple the team from making further moves,
-and that it was highly unlikely that he could stay at the position for the bulk of the contract, making it difficult to realize value on the life of the deal.

And there were many of us that called for Burton to be moved at his peak and/or definitely not signed for more than a year at a time. For aging relief pitchers, in this case, already back from oblivion at least once in his career, a very questionable move. RPs have to be the easiest and cheapest commodity to accumulate- your own failed starting pitchers, guys you draft specifically to relieve, waiver wire claims and the huge, huge annual offseason recycling bin.

Edited by jokin, 17 April 2014 - 08:53 AM.


#34 Cris E

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

After Crain and Gueereruier went through these flat spots they eventually faced long lasting injuries. And in his past Burton has had serious bouts with the injury bug, losing most of 2010-11. For him to blithely say "I'm fine, it's not physical" after stinking the joint up last summer, rallying for a few weeks and then falling flat ever since sort of raises a flag.

#35 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:44 AM

Just cut him. I don't get the obsession with not using the farm team RP.....their strategy is supposedly to build from within, yet Tonkin started the year in AAA, so they could keep all these "proven vets" around. I don't get their actual strategy, since they don't seem to follow it......

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#36 Willihammer

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:45 AM

I don't think this a flukey batted ball or SSS thing. Burton's fastball velocity has tumbled almost 2 mph over the past two years. Not good.

#37 Shane Wahl

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:21 AM

Just cut him. I don't get the obsession with not using the farm team RP.....their strategy is supposedly to build from within, yet Tonkin started the year in AAA, so they could keep all these "proven vets" around. I don't get their actual strategy, since they don't seem to follow it......


Precisely. Achter, Guerra, and Oliveros are three good contenders for promotion right now.

#38 troyhobbs

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:23 PM

Well I must have missed the widespread demands to trade Burton over the past year. I can't recall a single one in fact.

Burton tanking is no big deal as long as the Twins don't let it become one. Demote him, cut him, whatever. They have backups.

Just don't continue to play him if he stinks.


I think there was plenty of skepticism surrounding Burton last year, maybe the trade demands weren't widespread because as other posters have noted he had little trade value anyway. I was calling for anyone w/ any trade value whatsoever to be dealt last year just to hold my interest in following the team...just like I will be this year. Ok, it's early and they're playing good within the division at least, but when the wheels do fall off...bring on the transactions!

#39 Thrylos

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:34 PM

When was the last time a 30 something setup man was traded for anything that mattered?


Capps?
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#40 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

The most frustrating thing to me is that the Twins have long been very good at filling out their bullpen in cheap, replaceable ways.....so why do they insist on holding on to guys past their peak value? Burton is another case of that.