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#1 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:41 PM

remember, it always could be worse

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

:whacky028::whacky028: :whacky028::whacky028:

#2 Thrylos

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:33 PM

remember, it always could be worse


Barely.

Nishioka's line with the Twins: .215/.267/.236
Florimon's: .212/.273/.314

He is fast approaching the Nishioka level...
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#3 ScottyB

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:40 PM

Barely.

Nishioka's line with the Twins: .215/.267/.236
Florimon's: .212/.273/.314

He is fast approaching the Nishioka level...


But remember Nishi also sucked as a fielder. At least Florimon can play defense. Nishi had no business in a major league uniform.

#4 Reider

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:58 PM

The only thing people can say bad about Florimon is that he's a below average hitter. He's was one of the best SS's in the league last year and so far this year he looks as sharp as I've ever seen him. Don't listen to people who claim that Nunez or Escobar etc.. are just as good or better than Florimon defensively. Florimon is a special talent that only comes around every so often and people who try to downplay his defensive abilities do not have a clue about what they are talking about. They are the people I refer to when I say that Twins fans don't even know what they have in Florimon.

Defense wins championships my friends. If you put Nunez in there, you are asking for trouble. There's a reason why Florimon is a starting SS in the MLB and Nunez is in the minor leagues.

#5 eLee612

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:03 PM

^^Reider is my new favorite poster. #TeamTorpedro
Nadie dijo que la vida sería fácil, sólo dijeron que valdría la pena.

#6 CRArko

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:32 PM

The only thing people can say bad about Florimon is that he's a below average hitter. He's was one of the best SS's in the league last year and so far this year he looks as sharp as I've ever seen him. Don't listen to people who claim that Nunez or Escobar etc.. are just as good or better than Florimon defensively. Florimon is a special talent that only comes around every so often and people who try to downplay his defensive abilities do not have a clue about what they are talking about. They are the people I refer to when I say that Twins fans don't even know what they have in Florimon.

Defense wins championships my friends. If you put Nunez in there, you are asking for trouble. There's a reason why Florimon is a starting SS in the MLB and Nunez is in the minor leagues.


Thanks a heap for the helpful advice, but I'm pretty sure I can decide who to listen to all on my own.

#7 Reider

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:41 PM

Thanks a heap for the helpful advice, but I'm pretty sure I can decide who to listen to all on my own.

If you want advice, you really shouldn't listen to anyone. Decide for yourself based on what you see. Pedro is smooth as silk. And knock on wood, so far he hasn't been making any of those simple mistakes that he made at the start of last year.

#8 Since71

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:44 PM

The only thing people can say bad about Florimon is that he's a below average hitter. He's was one of the best SS's in the league last year and so far this year he looks as sharp as I've ever seen him. Don't listen to people who claim that Nunez or Escobar etc.. are just as good or better than Florimon defensively. Florimon is a special talent that only comes around every so often and people who try to downplay his defensive abilities do not have a clue about what they are talking about. They are the people I refer to when I say that Twins fans don't even know what they have in Florimon.

Defense wins championships my friends. If you put Nunez in there, you are asking for trouble. There's a reason why Florimon is a starting SS in the MLB and Nunez is in the minor leagues.

Sorry and I am not a Florimon hater, but good defensive ss who hover around the Mendoza line are not "a special talent". I do believe he will hit better than he has so far and if he can get to 230/240 then he is the best option but if he doesn't improve in the next week I think the Twins should send him to Rochester to regain his "stroke" and see what the have in Escobar

#9 A beginner

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:45 PM

I am with Reider. Remember when Plouffe was ss? I recall actually shouting "you suck" at a game (after a couple of beers). I know, I know hitting is also important,
but so is defense and Floriman has that.

Be gentle boys, my first substantive post.

#10 Boom Boom

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:45 PM

The only thing people can say bad about Florimon is that he's a below average hitter. He's was one of the best SS's in the league last year and so far this year he looks as sharp as I've ever seen him. Don't listen to people who claim that Nunez or Escobar etc.. are just as good or better than Florimon defensively. Florimon is a special talent that only comes around every so often and people who try to downplay his defensive abilities do not have a clue about what they are talking about. They are the people I refer to when I say that Twins fans don't even know what they have in Florimon.

Defense wins championships my friends. If you put Nunez in there, you are asking for trouble. There's a reason why Florimon is a starting SS in the MLB and Nunez is in the minor leagues.


I don't think anybody is championing Escobar or Nunez as better than Florimon defensively.

The reason Florimon is starting is that the Twins don't have any shortstops that can play on both sides of the ball.

There's also a reason Florimon was available to be picked up on waivers for nothing.

#11 cmathewson

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:51 PM

Barely.

Nishioka's line with the Twins: .215/.267/.236
Florimon's: .212/.273/.314

He is fast approaching the Nishioka level...


Nishioka was the worst defensive shortstop I've ever seen, and the worst defensive second basemen. And that is coming from a guy who watched Brendan Harris and Fred Manrique.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#12 Reider

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:51 PM

Sorry and I am not a Florimon hater, but good defensive ss who hover around the Mendoza line are not "a special talent". I do believe he will hit better than he has so far and if he can get to 230/240 then he is the best option but if he doesn't improve in the next week I think the Twins should send him to Rochester to regain his "stroke" and see what the have in Escobar

When I refer to him as a special talent, I am solely talking about his defensive skill set. His defensive skill set only comes around every so often. His hitting is another story, which we all know about.

#13 Riverbrian

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:55 PM

I am with Reider. Remember when Plouffe was ss? I recall actually shouting "you suck" at a game (after a couple of beers). I know, I know hitting is also important,
but so is defense and Floriman has that.

Be gentle boys, my first substantive post.


Welcome aboard... After you reach 50 posts... You will be required to change your name. ;)
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#14 Reider

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:59 PM

There's also a reason Florimon was available to be picked up on waivers for nothing.

Yeah, because he's a below average hitter. And i've never claimed that Florimon will ever turn out to be anything fantastic at the plate. All I've ever hoped for is that given the circumstances, we can afford to and should give him one more season to show some improvement at the plate. That's it. And the reason why I think it's worth giving him another opportunity in the first place goes back to my initial claim that his defensive skill set only comes around every so often. Does that make things a little more clear to everyone?

His defensive skill set + our organizational circumstances = It's a good idea to give him another opportunity. Obviously the Twins agree because he's the starting SS.

If he doesn't show any improvement this year, then lets bring back J.J. Hardy in the off season or sign someone else or trade for someone else. Is that not fair?

Edited by Reider, 16 April 2014 - 06:03 PM.


#15 Since71

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:03 PM

When I refer to him as a special talent, I am solely talking about his defensive skill set. His defensive skill set only comes around every so often. His hitting is another story, which we all know about.

Well that would work fine if we could DH for him but unfortunately position players have to hit and as I said if he can hit 230/240 then his defense makes him best option but hitting <200 makes him an offensive liability. unfortunately the Twins don't have a lot of options but I watched Escobar here at Rochester last year and well he is certainly not in Florimons league on defense he held his own and is a much better hitter...so as I said give Flori a week and if no improvement send him down and give Escobar a shot and at least see what you have

#16 CRArko

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:04 PM

It appears Nunez is being called up as the 26th man for the doubleheader tomorrow. We should get a (small) chance to see for ourselves.

#17 cmathewson

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:07 PM

It appears Nunez is being called up as the 26th man for the doubleheader tomorrow. We should get a (small) chance to see for ourselves.


I read a rumor he's being used as a RF so Colabello can DH and Pinto can catch Game 2. But we'll see. I'd be surprised if he plays short ahead of either Florimon or Escobar.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#18 notoriousgod71

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:12 PM

When I refer to him as a special talent, I am solely talking about his defensive skill set. His defensive skill set only comes around every so often. His hitting is another story, which we all know about.


The thing is no matter how good his defense is he is one giant black hole on offense. It's no different than having Brendan Ryan or Adam Everett at short. I feel like I'm having the Punto argument again.

If everyone else hits it doesn't matter what Punto/Florimon does offensively.

#19 notoriousgod71

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

And let's just enjoy the brilliance of Dave's video. A true classic.

#20 John Bonnes

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:26 PM

Bottom line: I don't know of any better options right now. I'm ok with giving Escobar some run, but my hopes aren't high. And Santana is sporting a 11:1 K:BB ratio in Rochester. So might as well get the defense, I suppose, and hope he gets out if this slump to something resembling the Mendoza line.

#21 Thrylos

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:32 PM

Nishioka was the worst defensive shortstop I've ever seen, and the worst defensive second basemen. And that is coming from a guy who watched Brendan Harris and Fred Manrique.


Did you watch that single inning when Gardy played Brian Bu(t)cher at second in 2008 ;)
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#22 DocBauer

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:02 PM

Nishioka was the worst defensive shortstop I've ever seen, and the worst defensive second basemen. And that is coming from a guy who watched Brendan Harris and Fred Manrique.


If there was real logic to the vernacular in baseball, Nishioka would be a four letter word.

#23 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

Calling Florimon a "below average" hitter is being pretty generous.

#24 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:19 PM

Did you watch that single inning when Gardy played Brian Bu(t)cher at second in 2008 ;)


No, but I saw the time Matt Tolbert -- bless him -- tripped over second base trying to take a throw on a steal attempt.

#25 Beezer07

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:19 PM

Calling Florimon a "below average" hitter is being pretty generous.


I was just gonna say, that's an insult to hitters who are actually below average. Florimon is atrocious.

#26 golfboy1

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:22 PM

Bottom line: I don't know of any better options right now. I'm ok with giving Escobar some run, but my hopes aren't high. And Santana is sporting a 11:1 K:BB ratio in Rochester. So might as well get the defense, I suppose, and hope he gets out if this slump to something resembling the Mendoza line.


That's right, they don't have anyone else who is ready to play ML SS right now so they might as well go with Florimon & hope he learns to hit.

He's really very good defensively & if the Twins had a better offense from other positions it wouldn't be so bad. Right now, I can't think of one position where the Twins have someone who is one of the best offensive players at their position. If Colabello & Plouffe keep it up they will be but I'm not certain that will happen.


Florimon is the best defensive SS the Twins have had in a long time....maybe Greg Gagne was as good... so I think they should stick with him for awhile. If he could just cut down on his SO & make better contact he would be a valuable player.

#27 Riverbrian

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:26 PM

Peralta 2013:
AB 409
HR 11
BA .303
BB 35
TB 187
OPS .815

Florimon 2013:
AB 403
HR 9
BA .221
BB 33
TB 133
OPS .611

I agree that .611 OPS is bad and .815 is nice.

However... I make this point every year... Maybe twice a year.

That .200 plus OPS is a difference of 56 bases.

Spread out over 134 (Florimon's 2013 total) games and it's 1 extra base every 2.3 games.

The margins are thin and baseball is a game of inches and sometimes you win with 7 of Diamonds and a 2 of clubs.

Dear Bruno... Beat Florimon senseless until he goes with the pitch.
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#28 Linus

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:30 PM

I am with Reider. Remember when Plouffe was ss? I recall actually shouting "you suck" at a game (after a couple of beers). I know, I know hitting is also important,
but so is defense and Floriman has that.



Be gentle boys, my first substantive post.


Dude, I still do that every time he picks up a ball at third base and gets ready to throw. However, I consider it an improvement because I used to do it every time a pitcher threw him something on the outside part of the plate, and I don't feel compelled to do that anymore.

#29 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:54 PM

Honestly if you compare Florimon's 2013 hitting to just about any other guy who played middle infield since Hardy left, Florimon is really not that far off offensively.

Florimon's 2013 stat line is identical to Dozier's 2012 stat line. Plouffe couldn't hit out of the .230s when he was shortstop (did provide some power). None of the other guys like Carroll, Tolbert, Hughes, could provide any offense at all, except Casilla. Yeah so Florimon is not the future shortstop, but I will defend him against these other guys we've had, in a heartbeat.

#30 ScottyB

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:33 PM

Nishioka was the worst defensive shortstop I've ever seen, and the worst defensive second basemen. And that is coming from a guy who watched Brendan Harris and Fred Manrique.


You can't get much lower than Fred Manrique. A glorious name from the past.