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Setting the record straight on Eddie Rosario

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#1 Trevor0333

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:15 PM

With Dozier beginning to show that his power surge isnt a fluke & his defense looking pretty solid at 2B again. Many fans are writing Rosario or Dozier off as trade bait. I was pushing for a Dozier trade (pre suspension) & letting the team ride the kids to finally see who sticks & who needs to be replaced.

Now that Dozier is showing he belongs on a MLB roster, maybe the SS is revisited but Im not sure he can stick there based on what scouts had said about his play there compared to 2B. Is it worth a shot in August/September? Why not I say. That said, if it doesn't work or isnt an option in the FO minds. Ruling out moving Rosario back to OF, specifically LF is not a mistake.

#1) Team OF depth: The Twins have graduated &or traded Denard Span, Ben Revere, Aaron Hicks, & Oswaldo Arcia. The only 2 legitimate OF prospects other than Buxton in the system are Max Kepler & Adam Walker. Both whom are 21 and really only Kepler has any real shot of being a corner OF. With so much focus on front end SP's & middle infielders the OF depth is a real issue.

#2) A Rosario/Buxton/Hicks OF with Arcia rotating as a DH & 4th OF has the potential to be one of the very best in the league defensively & still potent offensively. Can someone say "Soul Patrol II"!?! That speed & gap power would translate very well to spacious Target Field.

#3) While Rosario would lose some value offensively moving to a corner OF spot, his defense also goes from potentially average at 2B to very good. Rosario has good range, arm strength, & instincts in OF.

#4) Because he has been playing at minor league levels where he is much younger than the average league age, his power numbers are better than they initially appear. Look at these 4 players compare with minor league numbers & tell me why they should give up on Rosario as a LF.

Player 1
Age 22 - A+ : 131 G - 15 HR - 24 SB - 33 BB - 110 SO - .297/.340/.464/.804
Age 23 - AA : 134 G - 21 HR - 18 SB - 37 BB - 134 SO - .299/.349/.508/.856
Age 24 - AAA : 55 G - 4 HR - 9 SB - 9 BB - 36 SO - .298/.325/.444/.770

Player 2
Age 21 - A+ : 60 G - 0 HR - 22 SB - 12 BB - 59 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
Age 22 - AA : 129 G - 12 HR - 24 SB - 22 BB - 100 SO - .332/.370/.500/.870
Age 23 - AAA : 100 G - 12 HR - 21 SB - 28 BB - 94 SO - .282/.347/.494/.870

Player 3
Age 22 - AA/AAA: 134 G - 7 HR - 75 BB - 79 SO - .267/.368/.407/.775
Age 23 - AAA: 66 G - 9 HR - 55 BB - 38 SO - .303/.421/.487/.908

Player 4
Age 19 - Rk: 67 G - 21 HR - 17 SB - 16 BB - 28 SO - .294/.397/.670/1.068
Age 20 - Rk/A- : 100 G - 13 HR - 11 SB - 32 BB - 71 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
Age 21 - A+/AA : 122 G - 10 HR - 10 SB - 38 BB - 96 SO - .302/.350/.460/.810

P1: Jacque Jones - P2: Starling Marte - P3: Dustin Ackeley - P4: Eddie Rosario

#5) The suspension, it hasn't been properly documented or real clear about what caused the suspension. The initial unverified reports had him 1st testing positive for a banned substance. He was quoted in a Puerto Rican article it was from taking a medication he prevuiously had used & didnt finish for his arm previously that was now expired. Then a short time after that it was stated he had tested positive for "a substance of abuse" a 2nd time & was now being suspended for 50 games. Whether that means he was using old pain killers & they felt it was in a manner of abuse or he tested for something else such as amphetamines or weed now one seems to know. With the arm injury obviously affecting him in the WBC maybe its a bit of a silver lining & this will allow him time to heal & really motivate him. As long as his numbers weren't PED inflated, Im not overly concerned about a kid in a new country making a mistake. The only issue is if there is another it's now a 100 game suspension.

#2 Thrylos

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:30 PM

#1) Team OF depth: The Twins have graduated &or traded Denard Span, Ben Revere, Aaron Hicks, & Oswaldo Arcia. The only 2 legitimate OF prospects other than Buxton in the system are Max Kepler & Adam Walker. Both whom are 21 and really only Kepler has any real shot of being a corner OF. With so much focus on front end SP's & middle infielders the OF depth is a real issue.


This is not true.

And with Hicks, Arcia and Buxton around, how many more OF's do you need?

I count the following 5 OFs on my top 40 off-season Twins' prospects:

Travis Harrison (13) Yes he is an OF now
Max Kepler (16)
Adam Walker (17)
JD Williams (25)
Zach Larson (36)

The last 2 can play all OF positions and the top 3 are corner OFs. Also players like Amaurys Minier and Niko Goodrum might end up at the OF some time (because 3B will be taken for a while...)
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#3 Twins Twerp

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:40 PM

With Dozier beginning to show that his power surge isnt a fluke & his defense looking pretty solid at 2B again. Many fans are writing Rosario or Dozier off as trade bait. I was pushing for a Dozier trade (pre suspension) & letting the team ride the kids to finally see who sticks & who needs to be replaced.

Now that Dozier is showing he belongs on a MLB roster, maybe the SS is revisited but Im not sure he can stick there based on what scouts had said about his play there compared to 2B. Is it worth a shot in August/September? Why not I say. That said, if it doesn't work or isnt an option in the FO minds. Ruling out moving Rosario back to OF, specifically LF is not a mistake.

#1) Team OF depth: The Twins have graduated &or traded Denard Span, Ben Revere, Aaron Hicks, & Oswaldo Arcia. The only 2 legitimate OF prospects other than Buxton in the system are Max Kepler & Adam Walker. Both whom are 21 and really only Kepler has any real shot of being a corner OF. With so much focus on front end SP's & middle infielders the OF depth is a real issue.

#2) A Rosario/Buxton/Hicks OF with Arcia rotating as a DH & 4th OF has the potential to be one of the very best in the league defensively & still potent offensively. Can someone say "Soul Patrol II"!?! That speed & gap power would translate very well to spacious Target Field.

#3) While Rosario would lose some value offensively moving to a corner OF spot, his defense also goes from potentially average at 2B to very good. Rosario has good range, arm strength, & instincts in OF.

#4) Because he has been playing at minor league levels where he is much younger than the average league age, his power numbers are better than they initially appear. Look at these 4 players compare with minor league numbers & tell me why they should give up on Rosario as a LF.

Player 1
Age 22 - A+ : 131 G - 15 HR - 24 SB - 33 BB - 110 SO - .297/.340/.464/.804
Age 23 - AA : 134 G - 21 HR - 18 SB - 37 BB - 134 SO - .299/.349/.508/.856
Age 24 - AAA : 55 G - 4 HR - 9 SB - 9 BB - 36 SO - .298/.325/.444/.770

Player 2
Age 21 - A+ : 60 G - 0 HR - 22 SB - 12 BB - 59 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
Age 22 - AA : 129 G - 12 HR - 24 SB - 22 BB - 100 SO - .332/.370/.500/.870
Age 23 - AAA : 100 G - 12 HR - 21 SB - 28 BB - 94 SO - .282/.347/.494/.870

Player 3
Age 22 - AA/AAA: 134 G - 7 HR - 75 BB - 79 SO - .267/.368/.407/.775
Age 23 - AAA: 66 G - 9 HR - 55 BB - 38 SO - .303/.421/.487/.908

Player 4
Age 19 - Rk: 67 G - 21 HR - 17 SB - 16 BB - 28 SO - .294/.397/.670/1.068
Age 20 - Rk/A- : 100 G - 13 HR - 11 SB - 32 BB - 71 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
Age 21 - A+/AA : 122 G - 10 HR - 10 SB - 38 BB - 96 SO - .302/.350/.460/.810

P1: Jacque Jones - P2: Starling Marte - P3: Dustin Ackeley - P4: Eddie Rosario

#5) The suspension, it hasn't been properly documented or real clear about what caused the suspension. The initial unverified reports had him 1st testing positive for a banned substance. He was quoted in a Puerto Rican article it was from taking a medication he prevuiously had used & didnt finish for his arm previously that was now expired. Then a short time after that it was stated he had tested positive for "a substance of abuse" a 2nd time & was now being suspended for 50 games. Whether that means he was using old pain killers & they felt it was in a manner of abuse or he tested for something else such as amphetamines or weed now one seems to know. With the arm injury obviously affecting him in the WBC maybe its a bit of a silver lining & this will allow him time to heal & really motivate him. As long as his numbers weren't PED inflated, Im not overly concerned about a kid in a new country making a mistake. The only issue is if there is another it's now a 100 game suspension.


Puerto Rico is not a different country btw. They vote for president and have non-voting member of congress. I am concerned as he already had a bad rap as a not so great charactered kid. I think a move to the OF is already a forgone conclusion. Dozier is above average at 2nd and you are right about a lack of OF prospects. The jury is out on Hicks as well. Who knows how long collabello and kubel will be able to limp around right field?

#4 Trevor0333

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:48 PM

This is not true.

And with Hicks, Arcia and Buxton around, how many more OF's do you need?

I count the following 5 OFs on my top 40 off-season Twins' prospects:

Travis Harrison (13) Yes he is an OF now
Max Kepler (16)
Adam Walker (17)
JD Williams (25)
Zach Larson (36)

The last 2 can play all OF positions and the top 3 are corner OFs. Also players like Amaurys Minier and Niko Goodrum might end up at the OF some time (because 3B will be taken for a while...)


I had no idea they moved Harrison, really? That seems premature on him IMO. I thought Walker was a OF as much as Colabello is, basically a 1B who can play it in a pinch. Im not discounting Williams or Larson but they are probably another positive year away from truly putting themselves on the prospect map.

#5 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:51 PM

Not sure Eddie would be that valuable as an OF. Decent bat, but nothing special in a corner. I'd rather trade him than move him if that was the option.

#6 Thrylos

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:55 PM

I had no idea they moved Harrison, really? That seems premature on him IMO. I thought Walker was a OF as much as Colabello is, basically a 1B who can play it in a pinch. Im not discounting Williams or Larson but they are probably another positive year away from truly putting themselves on the prospect map.


Walker actually is a pretty decent OF with the glove. Better than most of the corner OFs the Twins have had for a while. He has transitioned to the OF from 1B in the pros and this Spring was pretty good. Arm might be an issue, but we are not talking Revere, we are talking Willingham. He is better than Colabello out there. More speed helps.

Harrison was caught in the numbers between Sano and Goodrum and Minier. Better chances to make it as an OF anyways...
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#7 JB_Iowa

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:57 PM

Can we wait until he serves his suspension and is back on the field before we rule anything out or in?

By the time he comes back, it will be late May -- 8-9 months after he last played. No spring training.

Let's at least see what kind of shape he is in and how he does at New Britain before we start trying to figure out where to put him in Minnesota.

#8 Trevor0333

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:00 PM

Puerto Rico is not a different country btw. They vote for president and have non-voting member of congress. I am concerned as he already had a bad rap as a not so great charactered kid. I think a move to the OF is already a forgone conclusion. Dozier is above average at 2nd and you are right about a lack of OF prospects. The jury is out on Hicks as well. Who knows how long collabello and kubel will be able to limp around right field?


Ok well its not a different country there is a very different culture & way of life there compared to the states. I never heard anything about his character. Maybe some small things are getting over blown from the team wanting to make a point and nip a couple habits in the bud before they grow. All I know is he was 19-20 years old at the time & I never heard any reports other than the suspension etc.

#9 Trevor0333

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:02 PM

Walker actually is a pretty decent OF with the glove. Better than most of the corner OFs the Twins have had for a while. He has transitioned to the OF from 1B in the pros and this Spring was pretty good. Arm might be an issue, but we are not talking Revere, we are talking Willingham. He is better than Colabello out there. More speed helps.

Harrison was caught in the numbers between Sano and Goodrum and Minier. Better chances to make it as an OF anyways...


That's good to know, where would you project Rosario as a OF prospect in relation the remaining OF in the system? Just curious.

#10 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:08 PM

Puerto Rico is not a different country btw. They vote for president


They do not vote for president, if you are talking about the President of the United States.

#11 Thrylos

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

That's good to know, where would you project Rosario as a OF prospect in relation the remaining OF in the system? Just curious.


He'd still be the top OF in the system after Buxton, but, unlike the others save JD Williams, he is mostly a centerfielder
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#12 jokin

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:53 PM

They do not vote for president, if you are talking about the President of the United States.


Puerto Rico doesn't vote in the general election but they do have primary votes in both major parties:

http://www.fairvote....neral-election/

And the debate continues there as it has since annexation from Spain on whether to maintain Commonwealth status, Statehood or Independence:

http://thehill.com/b...rican-statehood

As far as MLB is concerned (and perhaps, the legal system and labor law made this decision for the MLB), Puerto Rican prospects are considered subject to the same signing rules as all other American prospects.

#13 Thrylos

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:56 PM

As far as MLB is concerned (and perhaps, the legal system and labor law made this decision for the MLB), Puerto Rican prospects are considered subject to the same signing rules as all other American prospects.


Indeed, but so do Canadians. And thus that line of reasoning gets hairy ;)
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#14 Tibs

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:00 PM

Indeed, but so do Canadians. And thus that line of reasoning gets hairy ;)


Are Canadians hairy?
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#15 jorgenswest

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:02 PM

He is most valuable as a center fielder or second baseman. I am not sure how his defense is at either, but his bat will play well there.

Playing him in a corner combined with the suspension will drop his value to the team and other teams considerably. If he can play adequate 2B, they have some flexibility with Dozier either trading him or moving him to SS.

While Dozier's metrics at SS were average, he didn't look that good. He also didn't look that good with the bat. That can happen in your first year. Some out there saw him at SS regularly in AA and might have insight whether he might be able to play adequately defensively. He had a lower than expected number of errors in the minors which might suggest good hands and feet. I think we saw that his arm was lacking which would limit the range.

#16 DocBauer

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:03 PM

Not sure Eddie would be that valuable as an OF. Decent bat, but nothing special in a corner. I'd rather trade him than move him if that was the option.


I think I'm going to disagree with you on this one.

Now, to be fair, I have strongly advocated leaving Rosario at 2B for as long as possible to allow for various possibilities including: A) trading Dozier (which I'm really not in favor of at this point) B) moving Dozier back to his original lifelong position of SS now that he has gained comfort/experience/success/confidence at the ML level (a younger, better Drew for all the Drew proponents out there?) C) good trade value of Rosario as a 2B.

I don't believe a move back to the OF for Rosario would be difficult if that is the direction the Twins would eventually take.

The problem with Rosario is he is a talented enigma. He is such due to the suspension and rumors that are hopefully unfounded. And he is because while he shows real potential offensively, his talent remains largely untapped. Untapped, I believe, because while he has clearly deserved his promotions to this point, his most productive season was his first full as he has been, and is, young for each level.

Using Trevor's comparatives, for instance, he clearly shows the ability to hit, but his power numbers and production have slipped. But how good could he be when given a chance for talent to equal out with age and level? Not only should he probably continue to hit well, but I believe his power numbers, (not just HR's) will begin to climb again.

And to join Buxton and Hicks in the OF, play an excellent LF with range, hit, steal bases, and produce 30+ doubles yearly with a handful of triples, and say mid-teen HR totals, (assuming 20+ is beyond him) would give the Twins one of the best all around OFs in the league. You'd have tremendous defensive range, and a great mixed bag of hitting, OB, speed and power at the top and lower third of the order.

Arcia, and possibly the aforementioned Kepler and Walker at DH, OF and 1B fill-in would be tremendous.

#17 Marta Shearing

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:12 PM

Oh the value argument. So we trade him for a pitcher and put a stiff in LF. How much sense does that make? Arcia projects as a DH. Hicks may not even pan out, especially if he doesn't quit this switch hitting nonsense.

#18 Twins Twerp

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:36 PM

Puerto Rico doesn't vote in the general election but they do have primary votes in both major parties:

http://www.fairvote....neral-election/

And the debate continues there as it has since annexation from Spain on whether to maintain Commonwealth status, Statehood or Independence:

http://thehill.com/b...rican-statehood

As far as MLB is concerned (and perhaps, the legal system and labor law made this decision for the MLB), Puerto Rican prospects are considered subject to the same signing rules as all other American prospects.


Exactly...should have been more specific. I believe they would be considered a protectorate vs. a colony. I think the point is that Rosario grew up in the US speaking spanish AND English. He is now an adult and should be held to the same standards as any 21 year old adult who has a job. Especially when that job could pay you millions. Now could he grow up and still be a great mlb player, sure. I hope to hell he does...time will tell.

#19 clutterheart

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:19 PM

This is not true.

And with Hicks, Arcia and Buxton around, how many more OF's do you need?

I count the following 5 OFs on my top 40 off-season Twins' prospects:

Travis Harrison (13) Yes he is an OF now
Max Kepler (16)
Adam Walker (17)
JD Williams (25)
Zach Larson (36)


At this point all of those guys are at least 2 - 3 years away from being in the MLB roster conversation
Kepler - We'll See
Walker - We'll see
Harrison - We'll see
JD Williams - Could be a nice 4th OF guy
Larsen - Way too early to predict
Minier - Way too early to predict
Goodrum - Super utility type?

I agree with this article. So far Dozier has shown enough Right Handed power to stay with the team. Let's see what happens with Rosario after his suspension. If he can still hit, there is a place for him on the roster, and think LF would be an OK place for him.
Rosario
Buxton
Arcia
is not a bad OF for 2015

#20 cmathewson

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:50 PM

Are Canadians hairy?


Koskie is said to have been the hairiest person in that clubhouse. I think they pranked him about it a couple of times.

Anywho, I agree with JB. Let this thing play out. But there are enough question marks about him that I would no longer rank him in my top 10. Polanco is ahead of him, and he is a legitimate threat to unseat Dozier, when the time comes. So perhaps they move Rosario to a corner. I'm not convinced he can't play there. He might not have the power traditonally associated with a corner player, but he could be a very productive corner player nonetheless.

As for trading him, now would be the worst time. If he comes back and rakes in the second half, maybe you trade him in the offseason for the right deal. But why trade him unless you need to or his value is very high?
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#21 cmathewson

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:52 PM

A this point, I wouldn't call any of those guys "legit" OF prospects.

Kepler - We'll See
Walker - We'll see
Harrison - We'll see
JD Williams - Could be a nice 4th OF guy
Larsen - Way too early to predict
Minier - Way too early to predict
Goodrum - Super utility type?

I agree with this article. So far Dozier has shown enough Right Handed power to stay with the team. Let's see what happens with Rosario after his suspension. If he can still hit, there is a place for him on the roster, and think LF would be an OK place for him.
Rosario
Buxton
Arcia
is not a bad OF for 2015


Kepler certainly is a legit prospect. I think Walker is. Probably Harrison. Not sure about the rest.
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#22 mike wants wins

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:13 AM

I also agree that they are not "loaded" with sure fire OFers.....I'm still not sure Hicks is a MLB OF at a corner. They have pretty much the same number of 2B prospects as OF prospects, imo.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#23 halfchest

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:55 PM

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that Corner OF are cheaper to acquire either via free agency or trade than a good 2B. Maybe if he shows enough with the bat we've got an awesome asset in a guy who can play corner of, backup 2B and maybe even be your backup at CF in a pinch. I'd like to see him stick at 2B as many have mentioned here just because that's where his bat would be the most valuable either for the Twins either on the Major league club or in the right trade scenario.