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Article: Samuel Deduno and Strange Decisions

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:39 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...range-Decisions

#2 blairpaul715


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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:56 PM

I agree, with this soooo much, Deduno should be starting........the worst pitching staff cant find a spot for someone with the stuff he has, incredulous!!!!

#3 longstrangetrip


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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

Thanks for the Deduno article, nick, and I agree 100%. I love Samuel as a starter, but he is completely miscast as a reliever. Now that the Twins have committed to the other five as starters, though, this becomes my dream scenario. All five pitch well enough that Deduno stays in the bullpen until summer, at which time Correia or Pelfrey is traded to a contender for a prospect or two, opening up a spot for Samuel.

#4 Reider


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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

Deduno earned a starting spot, but I was fine with him starting the season as a long releiver and giving Gibson another opportunity. It's obvious to everyone that Deduno is off to a rocky start, but what i'm not sure about is whether his shaky performances this season are due to him being moved to the bullpen or him just getting off to a slow start. I'm sure he'll eventually get accustomed to pitching out of the bullpen or he'll get moved back to the starting rotation. He has good movement on his pitches, he's just missing his spots too often and by too much. I'm not overly concerned at this point. It's April 10th.

#5 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:15 PM

He's just too wild to use in high leverage situations, which leaves him as a mop up guy. I can't really fault Gardy though for bringing him in the 11th to pitch for as many innings as he could get.

We went into spring training with SP depth, 4 veterans locked in and 4 other guys competing for the fifth spot, and were told the depth was good, that through performance or injury it would work itself out. Well this is the painful phase we are now going through.

If I were manager/ GM/ pitching coach I'd already be going through Deduno's past pitching lines and trying to line up a favorable start for him later in April.

#6 howeda7


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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:59 PM

Swap Deduno for Pelfrey immediately. Eventually someone else will pitch their way out (Corriea) and Pelfrey can have another shot. Until then, he can give us 3 effective innings at a time out of the bullpen instead of imploding after 5 in the rotation.

#7 NoCal



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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:05 AM

Deduno is your new hero? Oy, perspective please. Its April, lets go a few more weeks before we all join Howard with a "Fans View" that is totally apocalyptic. It will be all right........

#8 kblack1011



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Posted 11 April 2014 - 05:45 AM

With Deduno, Mays & Meyer, it was strange that they resigned Pelfrey for 2 years. I doubt Correia or Pelfrey will bring anything in trade. It's more likely they will have to cut them, Correia this year and Pelfrey next year.

#9 grubah


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 05:53 AM

kblack, you're unfortunately correct. People love to say, "Trade Correia or Pelfrey," but if you're not good enough to make the Twins rotation, you're not making anybody else's rotation either.

Pelf out of the pen is a good idea though. He does seem to generally do well for the first innings, and then the 5th inning monster shows up.

#10 PopRiveter


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:07 AM

Bravo, Nick! I wholeheartedly concur. This casting decision seems to leverage only the weaknesses of the pitcher with the best chance to be their best starter.

#11 pierre75275


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:40 AM

I agree.....mostly. I am okay with Gibson making the rotation at the expense of Deduno but I am not ok with Pelfry and Corria making the rotation at the expense of Deduno. However....maybe some trade fell thru this spring for Corria. We will never know. I would rarher see Deduno in the bullpen then pitching for a different organization

#12 Boom Boom

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:09 AM

Still not a big Deduno fan, but he's one of the best five starters on the team.

I like that Gibson is in the rotation, because I believe it's got to be sink-or-swim time with him. More time in the minors is not what he needs.

It's the Pelfrey signing that has pushed Deduno into the bullpen, IMO.

#13 Trevor0333


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:21 AM

Great recap of the odd moves, it's very hard to find the logic behind them.

Pelfrey does seem to fair better right out of the gate. Maybe he gains 2 mph on his fastball & his style of over using his fastball turns him into a decent setup guy.

Burton does not look good, could be a need for someone to step up into his role with Deduno swapping with Pelfrey.

#14 jmlease1


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:59 AM

While I agree that based on merit Deduno should be in the rotation and is miscast as a reliever, I'm mostly ok with taking another turn or two through the rotation before making a decision on kicking one of the current 5 to the pen and replacing them with Deduno. 2 starts is a pretty small sample size and I'm not ready to give up on anyone yet.

Let's keep in mind that if we went purely based on merit based on results so far, Nolasco is the one that should get kicked into the pen. he's been flat-out awful so far, easily the worst of the five. You have to hope that with his track record and contract he bounces back and his early struggles are either climate related or he just needs some innings to get into form.

The Bartlett decision is the one that I find really troubling. He's shown nothing to indicate he deserves a place on this roster. Again, it's a (very) small sample, but even in a handful of ABs he's looked totally lost at the plate and doesn't have the defensive skills any longer to be a super utility guy. He can't play OF, so what's he doing here? Hermann or Parmelee should have stuck from the start and now that they've added Nunez I have to believe Bartlett's time will be (deservedly) done soon.

#15 Trautmann13



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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:08 AM

The only thing I see now is how absolutely horrible the Pelfrey deal truly was. I was against it from the beginning and know I see that I was likely correct in feeling it was a waste of everyone's time and money.

I would not be surprised at all if the best thing we see from Pelfrey this year is the Wichita State prank played on him. Hopefully this whole thing is just a prank and it will be over soon.

#16 TheLeviathan


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:36 AM

We're ten games in and already our run differential is -13. Strap in Twins fans...it's going to be a long one.

#17 Dantes929


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:41 AM

Pelfrey's 1st start really wasn't all that bad. This last one was but mostly because he was walking guys before the home runs. Baker and Radke used to get off to slow starts in April as well Pelfrey did pretty well in the middle months last year. Way too early to give up on him or anyone else for that matter. Deduno out of the pen isn't bad in and of itself. If he has a 3 ERA out of the pen the wildness is no more of an issue than when he was starting. You notice it because of a wild pitch costing you a run but a 3 ERA is a 3 ERA. What makes it bad is that he can probably outperform at least 2 of the guys in the rotation. By year end the rotation will be Meyer, Deduno, Pelfrey, Gibson and Hughes or Nolasco. You give them all a chance (6 times through rotation maybe) but basically you have laid 4 guys with 4.3 career ERA's and a very good prospect at Anderson's feet wanting him to turn them into 4.00 ERA guys. If instead they are over 5.00 collectively in June then it should be proof enough that Anderson has been the common denominator.

#18 jimbo92107


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:49 AM

Swap Deduno for Pelfrey immediately. Eventually someone else will pitch their way out (Corriea) and Pelfrey can have another shot. Until then, he can give us 3 effective innings at a time out of the bullpen instead of imploding after 5 in the rotation.

Pelfrey's got good control of his two-seamer, but he's throwing waaaaay too many of them, and hitters are adapting. He's got to start mixing in a cutter that bends the other way. Even if he can't spot the cutter as well as his 2-seam, it would throw off hitters that are looking for the ball to bend right with a similar looking pitch that bends the other way.

I could see the Twins swapping Pelfrey and Deduno right now, but I'd work Pelfrey on throwing a cutter, then bring him back into the rotation.

#19 mike wants wins

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:49 AM

Except we have last year, and before he was injured as data also, Dantes929. For many of us, reaction to Pelfrey's starts is not about 2 data points.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)

#20 dwalter


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:56 AM

Great post, thanks. The Pelfrey signing to block Deduno drives me crazy. Could have used the $$ for something else. Deduno is perfect guy to use while waiting for everyone. I'd be way more likely to buy walk up seats for a deduno start than palfrey and am sure I'm not in the minority.

#21 Dave T

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:06 AM

Nick - I agreed with everything you said except for the remark about Presley. Good riddance to that no-hit AAAA player. Now that he's healthy again, Mastroianni is a much better reserve OF due to his offense.

#22 Brandon


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:15 AM

I think the argument for Deduno in the bullpen has more to do with durability then stuff. I prefer to watch him start but if he is going to be hurt it makes sense to minimize that risk with him in the pen and used as the 6th starter.

#23 spycake


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:16 AM

Nick: Great parallel with Bartlett! It definitely seems like the Twins are playing more guys out of position now, which could be an interesting strategy to get opportunities and assess talent, but it's often coming across as inexplicable (and often without any apparent upside).

Wasn't this the knock on Deduno before? Two other organizations let him go rather than give him a good look in the back of their pens, and I swear the Twins (or at least posters on this board) have made this point in discussing plans for Deduno over the past two seasons.

That said, Deduno's in a tricky spot, as he's not nearly reliable enough to guarantee a starting spot, and we needed to acquire more starters in the offseason anyway. Should Deduno and Pelfrey have competed (or should currently be competing) for a spot? Some have thought Pelf might improve out of the pen. Correia's got pen experience. (Hughes too, for that matter.) If these trends continue for the next month or so, it could get interesting (although it will be painful to watch in the meantime!).

#24 Halsey Hall

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:36 AM

I'm in the minority here, but glad we signed Pelf. Now Nolasco is a different story. He looks like he's just getting in his 4 innings and collecting a paycheck. If he starts off with another 4 starts like he's had, he's gotta go.

#25 cmathewson


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

My sense is they put him in the bullpen to save his arm. A couple of more starts like we've had in the Oakland series and they will not worry so much about his arm.

I look forward to the day when Deduno moves into the rotation in favor of Correia. What to do with the latter is less important than improving the team.

#26 TheLeviathan


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:22 AM

I look forward to the day when Deduno moves into the rotation in favor of Correia. What to do with the latter is less important than improving the team.

I'm glad to see you're coming around to my offseason gripe about finding a hole for Correia to fall into. :)

#27 rhal


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:25 AM

The moves made by this front office in the off-season look to be the worst we've seen from the Twins for quite some time. How you start the season without enough outfielders, the easiest position in the majors to fill, is incredible. Is there any sense whatsoever that outfield defense matters? It's hard to comprehend how they are where they are with no credible options for the corner outfield spots.

How can you go into the year with no shortstop? Bartlett has been done for over two year, would any other organization even have considered him as an option. Florimon had a short spring training following a poor year last year. That's what you go with for the key defensive position on your team?

The pitchers signed were rejects by their prior organizations and if they don't improve will have eaten a substantial amount of budget for the next 3-4 years. Nolasco for 4 years? Really?! Hughes for 3 years? Hughes has gotten simply pummeled since 2012 and now he is on the books until 2016. These appear to be awful, awful choices along the lines of Nishioki.

If this is what it looks like a month or so into the season, it's time for the Twins to break with the past and let the entire front office go. The decisions they made this year in building a team look absolutely pathetic.

Edited by rhal, 11 April 2014 - 10:28 AM.

#28 Chief_Roberts


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:42 AM

Nice article Nick, nailed it.

I have no clue how the staff has come to any of it's conclusions with Deduno. Everything they have done with him this year seems counter intuitive.

#29 spycake


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:49 AM

Now Nolasco is a different story. He looks like he's just getting in his 4 innings and collecting a paycheck. If he starts off with another 4 starts like he's had, he's gotta go.

Halsey: go where, exactly?

#30 Riverbrian


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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:07 PM

You won't find a bigger supporter of Deduno than I.

Wrong or right... I do believe that Deduno would be our top starter if in the rotation.

With that said... I'm OK with the current situation... Pitchers get hurt and you need numbers... Placing Deduno in the pen for the time being isn't an issue with me right now... Even if I feel that Deduno is our best starter. He's coming off an injury... You just signed 3 FA's... Letting Deduno dip his foot into the water and observing before diving straight in... Can be somewhat justified.

On Bartlett... I admit complete confusion and I can't justify it in my head. I've tried because I trust the many baseball professionals who make these decisions... I try to imagine why with benefit of doubt... But... I can't... I just can't...

It's the 25th spot on the roster so it isnt a life or death move but... In the context of this team... After witnessing The 2013 performance of CF... How you leave that spot complete shallow attempting to shoehorn in an extra backup infielder with no experience at the position to play it is beyond my logic.

I believe in Hicks... Maybe I believe now... but for sure... Eventually I believe!!! But what if 2014 Hicks ends up like 2013 Hicks... What if Hicks rips a tendon and is shut down for the year. Now what do you do.

The CF depth chart is Mastro or rushing Buxton. Or Bartlett? Escobar?

That my friends is Thin!!! Razor Thin!!! And we know what Thin feels like because we were CF thin in 2013 and it sucked to be thin.

It wasn't addressed or corrected and I can't get my head around it.

So... Let me go back to Bonofacio... Actual CF experience... Actual 3B experience... SS experience... 2B experience... Actual... You know... You know... utility experience!!! The Twins pass and instead try to teach Bartlett to become what Bonofacio already is...

Leadoff experience... And the Twins don't have a legit leadoff guy... Actual... Honest to god... Speed... Top ten MLB speed while the Twins are amongst the slowest in baseball if not the slowest in baseball. Hasn't been out of baseball and younger!!!

The only explanation that I can come up with and I worked real hard for this explanation.

Someone liked Bartlett... Someone thought that Bartlett was a... Guy who could change chemistry or something... Someone convinced Bartlett that he would make the club if he signed a minor league deal... Someone kept that promise to Bartlett because he didn't earn the job in ST.... He had to have the job going into ST... Didn't he?

Mastro is sent down and Parm is exposed to waivers to make room for Bartlett.

Its the 25th spot... I'm not losing sleep but why? I'd like to know why? And.. More importantly... I'd like to know who the inside advocate was?

Edited by Riverbrian, 11 April 2014 - 12:10 PM.

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