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Honeymoon Period for Pitching Staff?

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#1 MileHighTwinsFan

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

So when can we start critiquing the off season investments in starting pitching? End of April?, End of May?

#2 JB_Iowa

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

June 1

#3 JB_Iowa

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:31 PM

Actually, you may critique at any time. I just don't expect the Twins to do much of anything until about the 1st of June -- even if the pitching continues to s*ck.

#4 CRArko

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:34 PM

Well, I think we just did. But June 1 seems reasonable. The question becomes one of options at that point. Deduno and Meyer, I guess. Kris Johnson?

I really hope Nolasco and Hughes get it together before that. But hope isn't enough, is it?

#5 iTwins

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:38 PM

I've been able to talk myself into not panicking over Nolasco. I've convinced myself that Hughes will have more outings like innings 2-5 yesterday (rather than the 1st inning) as the season progresses.

Pelfrey, however, I cannot talk myself into. I know it's early and I know it's too soon to be throwing in the towel on any player, especially a pitcher...yet...

To more directly answer the original question - I'd wait until around June or July before leveling any serious evaluations at Nolasco and Hughes. Pelfrey has a much shorter 'grace period' in my opinion, however.

#6 Thrylos

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:52 PM

Pelfrey and Nolasco and Hughes do not worry me much. Deduno and Fien and Thielbar and Burton do. Again, I think that the Twins should try to see how their investments will pan out with a different pitching coach before they do something silly, like what the did with Liriano...
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#7 pierre75275

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:29 PM

Aaah....once the team remembers its a new season and that they arent playin in Sept 2013 they will be fine....but somebody should pry get that memo out sooner rather then later

#8 TheLeviathan

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:42 PM

Bah...April games don't count. Everyone knows that!

#9 jokin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:40 PM

I've been able to talk myself into not panicking over Nolasco. I've convinced myself that Hughes will have more outings like innings 2-5 yesterday (rather than the 1st inning) as the season progresses.

Pelfrey, however, I cannot talk myself into. I know it's early and I know it's too soon to be throwing in the towel on any player, especially a pitcher...yet...

To more directly answer the original question - I'd wait until around June or July before leveling any serious evaluations at Nolasco and Hughes. Pelfrey has a much shorter 'grace period' in my opinion, however.


I didn't see yesterday's game until the replay came on. The poor first inning for Hughes may never have happened if he had gotten a couple of strikes called from the wildly erratic home plate ump and Herrman's misplay of the fly ball at the wall. I remain positive that we'll see more of innings 2-5 than inning 1 as the season unfolds.

As for Nolasco, as I've previously posted, he's historically been a superior June-September pitcher, fans have to have that perspective in mind before they bring out the pitchforks on Ricky.

And as for the Pelf- I never would have signed him in the first place. But I understand that he's a likeable guy, a good example in the clubhouse, and capable of making a mid-course correction as he did last year- only this time he's a year further away from his TJ surgery.

If we get Gibson and Meyer coming on like we all hope and expect to be the case, there are worse situations than having Deduno and Pelfrey fighting it out for 5th starter status.

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:54 PM

I think you have to let a couple months go by before you get too panicked about the FA pitchers. Some guys are just slow starters in general, Nolasco and Hughes don't worry me in the least, in fact I think Hughes starts bouncing back ASAP. The guy showed some nice fortitude yesterday after a horrendous first part of the first inning. Pelfrey.. I didn't see the game today, but I am not going to freak over a single start, maybe he bombs completely, but its not like they gave him a ton of cash, I think he ends up ok as well.

The bullpen is a concern no doubt, but bullpen guys are easier to replace, and the Twins have a lot of nice young talent in the wings like Tonkin and even a guy like Guerra.
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#11 Sconnie

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:29 AM

I'm not worried about the starters yet. Each pitcher has had two starts, yes they have sucked badly with three exceptions, but Gibson looks good and is appearing stronger. If he can improve his BB rate, I think he will have a very successful season. Corriea had one quality start (terrible stat I know, but it leads to my next point) and otherwise been ok. I don't see him lasting the entire season, because I think Meyer or May will make a case to be in the rotation by mid season. My hope is Corriea will pitch well enough to be traded. The rest of the starters are locked in, barring injury.

The relievers on the other hand have been worked hard already and the Twins have already added to their ranks with Tonkin. These relievers look bad and have had a few appearances to work things out. It's a good thing that AAA is well stocked with MLB caliber relievers because I think the big club will need them. I'm with Thrylos, those specific relievers are troubling. Deduno needs to learn how to be a reliever in AAA, but he's out of options, so we get to watch Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn throw it into the net.

#12 Kwak

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:14 AM

To me it's a coin-flip. Heads: They are MLB players (not rookies either!), hence they are carp--season is open year round, with no limit; Tails: The Twins aren't playoff contenders--they are rebuilding! Enjoy their misery and hope that they can draft/develop their way out of this mess ASAP.

#13 Jim H

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:52 AM

Since the Twins spent quite a bit of money on starting pitching, many people expect that the starting pitching will be much better than last year. That may happen, but largely what the Twins have is a collection of mid-rotation arms. Gibson maybe an exception to that, but he is inexperienced and it is probably too soon to be sure he is any better than that. Mid-rotation arms are generally very inconsistent. That is why they are mid-rotation arms. They are inconsistent from season to season, and often inconsistent from start to start.

Eventually, if they have no injury problems, this collection of mid-rotation arms will likely put up mid-rotation stats. But, they will get there inconsistently. A bad start, a good start. A few good starts, a few bad starts. Maybe a stretch of good starts, maybe a stretch of bad starts.

What we all hope will happen, is that some of them will be replaced by guys with higher ceilings. Like Meyer and perhaps May. And eventually perhaps others from the farm system. The Twins can afford to eat salary, if necessary. I really don't expect any of the 4 free agent signings to ever become "trade bait". Largely, the Twins overpaid each one of them, in order to upgrade their starting pitching. It is wishful thinking that any of them will suddenly become highly desirable trade targets.

The bullpen situation is a bit more hopeful. Most of the bullpen guys are coming off good seasons, almost none are expensive, and there is a decent group of replacement arms at AA and AAA.

I actually think the pitching will get better as we go along. It is just best to remember that what the Twins have is not an elite group and there will be a lot of ups and downs with these guys.

#14 jorgenswest

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:55 AM

After two games, I am concerned about Nolasco' s pitch usage.

His pitch mix with the Dodgers was very different with much more use of the slider and less of the fastball variants.

Liriani's pitch mix with the Pirates was also very different with a decrease in the fastball use.

I hope they don't wait a few months before looking at what might be different.

#15 mike wants wins

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:27 AM

Teh bummer of the honeymoon is that Meyer, their only "certain" SP that could help this year, is on an innings' limit......

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#16 Sconnie

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:28 PM

After two games, I am concerned about Nolasco' s pitch usage.

His pitch mix with the Dodgers was very different with much more use of the slider and less of the fastball variants.

Liriani's pitch mix with the Pirates was also very different with a decrease in the fastball use.

I hope they don't wait a few months before looking at what might be different.

You make a very good point. Does Kurt "call fastball/the manager loves me" Suzuki bode poorly for this? My worry, to your notion, is Pinto learns too much from Suzuki as far as specific pitch calls goes.

#17 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

Nolasco looked great! Now onto Hughes and Pelf
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