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Article: Twins Acquire Infielder Eduardo Nunez From Yankees

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#101 tobi0040

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 02:40 PM

The notion that you can just go out and get shortstop prospects like Didi without giving up another significant part (top 5 prospect) is absurd; if Didi costs something less than that, there's probably something wrong with him. .



Couple of points. In addition to Didi, he Reds gave up Drew Stubbs. He was coming off a .680 OPS and 100 SB over the previous 3 years and was and is a starting CF. Choo was a rental. And Bauer while highly ranked, refused to tinker with his delivery, which the D-Backs demanded and he refused. These things were all factors in this complicated trade, alone with 6 other players being involved. Since the trade, Bauer has 33 IP at the big show with a 5.67 ERA. Last year he had a 4.15 ERA in AAA. Maybe not tinkering with his delivery has hurt his results?

Lastly, I think you mean top five prospect for a team. Not a top five overall prospect. By which I would say that each teams top five prospects are not all created equally. So a package that starts around our say 7th or 8th best prospect would not be absurd. Trevor May was the Phillies top prospect and I think he slotted in at 7 or 8 immediately after the trade.

#102 spycake

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 02:51 PM

The quotes coming from the Twins seem to indicate they view him as a potential replacement for Florimon, rather than as a utility guy. Whether that works is doubtful but I dont think they got him with utility guy in mind.


Thanks, I hadn't read much of the official press on this move yet.

I guess we should find out soon, when we see how much Nunez plays (and where he plays) at Rochester.

#103 spycake

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 03:02 PM

Interesting that Nunez's minor league slash lines are very similar to Florimon and Escobar. His big advantage there seems to be K rate.

Of course, Nunez has over 800 PA with basically the same slash line / OPS at the MLB level, so obviously his skill have translated better. Career MLB OPS+ is 87, similar to 2012 figures from Revere, Carroll, and Mastroianni -- still not great, but definitely useful IF he can demonstrate some level of proficiency/versatility up the middle.

#104 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 03:52 PM

There's simply not that many better SS prospects than the collection we have in the high minors already.


AZ has 5 that I'd take over what the Twins have now (with the possible exception of Polanco if he turns out to in fact, be a SS).


All teams tend to covet their SS prospects.


Yeah, that's true, but in the Twins' case, that's more of a vice than a virtue.

#105 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 04:05 PM

Because we are sure that Phil Hughes would comment on his former and likely near future teammate without bias?


Besides, with Santana at SS in Rochester, I am pretty sure they view Nunez as a utility guy, which lowers the bar for his SS defense a bit but also lowers his potential value.


The quotes coming from the Twins seem to indicate they view him as a potential replacement for Florimon, rather than as a utility guy. Whether that works is doubtful but I dont think they got him with utility guy in mind.


Absolutely right, Chief.... and the acquisition must by implication mean that the Twins have come to the conclusion that Santana is not ready this year to make the jump. This move was an admission that Gardy's early announcement of Florimon as his starter was premature, ill-conceived with his surgery, and has been scrapped and now the competition for the spot is now officially reopened.

And Spycake, did you read the full quote? I thought Hughes' comments on Nunez were far meatier contextually than just a rah-rah new teammate attaboy.

#106 Thrylos

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:08 PM

Nunez had a defensive WAR of -2.1 in just 90 games last year .


The definition of small sample size and poster boy for the reason that WAR is not a stat that should be used to describe everything...

Lots of defensive metrics out there and some contradict each other. I'd love to see what James' plus/minus says on Nunez because he made 50 plays out of zone last year as well, which might off-set some of the UZR stuff...
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#107 Thrylos

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:14 PM

Did you see who we have been running out to LF every day since 2008? I think the "defense first" Twins identity died several years ago.


I corrected that for you
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#108 Thrylos

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:18 PM

. Here is a quick list of players drafted or signed as SS, who were moved. Plouffe, Dozier, and Sano. Soon to be Polanco, Nunez, Goodrum, and Danny Santana.


In addition to the obvious fact that Sano was never drafted, the second sentence is 3/4 false as well. Polanco moved 100% to SS this season, resulting to Goodrum moving to 3B and Harrison to the OF, Santana will stay at SS and Nunez is too early to see yet.

Add Cuddyer, Levi Michael and Tyler Grimes to the list of SS drafted by the Twins and moved positions...
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#109 TheLeviathan

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:20 PM

I corrected that for you


Touche.

The Twins myth of "we'll always out hustle and do the little things better!" has been dead for awhile. I'm stealing Riverbrian's thunder on this, but they have been anything but the "Twins Way" for a long time.

And, no, that has nothing to do with their talent level. They have managed to be both untalented and undisciplined/sloppy/defensively inept for awhile now.

#110 Thrylos

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:20 PM

I disagree with your first statement. Gloves like his are special. I do agree that his bat is not up to snuff. The Twins might have one guy who has a chance to be that good (Vielma).


Vielma's glove is already better than Florimon's. I kid you not.
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#111 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 06:21 PM

Vielma's glove is already better than Florimon's. I kid you not.

Wow! At not yet 20 y/o that is pretty awesome. Let's hope this young man can develop the hit tool.

#112 Hugh Morris

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:16 PM

Absolutely right, Chief.... and the acquisition must by implication mean that the Twins have come to the conclusion that Santana is not ready this year to make the jump.


I don't see that as the implication-definitely not with the certainty you have. I don't foresee Nunez "blocking" Santana in any sense (unless Nunez is hitting well outside his norms-which I'll take). I wouldn't even call it a guarantee that he's a starter at this point.

Why do you find a Santana-Florimon (or Escobar)-Nunez depth chart less likely than a Santana-Florimon-Escobar depth chart?

#113 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

I don't see that as the implication-definitely not with the certainty you have. I don't foresee Nunez "blocking" Santana in any sense (unless Nunez is hitting well outside his norms-which I'll take). I wouldn't even call it a guarantee that he's a starter at this point.

Why do you find a Santana-Florimon (or Escobar)-Nunez depth chart less likely than a Santana-Florimon-Escobar depth chart?


Not hard. The Twins now have a guy who has 4 years of ML experience playing SS. There's obviously no "guarantee", but the Twins have publicly said that Nunez will be challenging for the starting SS job in the wake of Florimon's situation. If Santana was indeed "ready", there was no reason to make this deal- and they already have a perfectly capable UTIL infielder in Escobar.

#114 tobi0040

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:50 PM

In addition to the obvious fact that Sano was never drafted, the second sentence is 3/4 false as well. Polanco moved 100% to SS this season, resulting to Goodrum moving to 3B and Harrison to the OF, Santana will stay at SS and Nunez is too early to see yet.

Add Cuddyer, Levi Michael and Tyler Grimes to the list of SS drafted by the Twins and moved positions...


It is an "obvious fact" that Sano was never drafted. That is why I said "here is a list of players drafted or signed".

I understand we have players that line up between the 3B and 2B defensively in our minor league system. If you read the post you would have noticed I was predicting they would not stay there. Every current prospect has a limitation or question mark about them and I could see a scenario where none ends up making it to the big leagues for an extended period of time. That was the point of the comment.

Look at Plouffe, he saw a majority of his reps at SS all the way through AAA before being moved.

Edited by tobi0040, 08 April 2014 - 08:07 PM.


#115 cmathewson

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:16 PM

Not hard. The Twins now have a guy who has 4 years of ML experience playing SS. There's obviously no "guarantee", but the Twins have publicly said that Nunez will be challenging for the starting SS job in the wake of Florimon's situation. If Santana was indeed "ready", there was no reason to make this deal- and they already have a perfectly capable UTIL infielder in Escobar.


There is another option. Depth. I expect Santana to start most of the year in Roch. I also expect Florimon to start most of the year in the majors. But if either gets injured, it would be nice to have a guy who could step in. Until then, Nunez can play several positions in Rochester.
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#116 Hugh Morris

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

Not hard. The Twins now have a guy who has 4 years of ML experience playing SS. There's obviously no "guarantee", but the Twins have publicly said that Nunez will be challenging for the starting SS job in the wake of Florimon's situation. If Santana was indeed "ready", there was no reason to make this deal- and they already have a perfectly capable UTIL infielder in Escobar.


There's only "no reason" to make this deal if you don't see an advantage to having a bench bat that's got a nice platoon split against lefties and who is (vaguely) able to play all around the infield.

I find "We'd like to replace Bartlett with another infielder and don't want Beresford [for whatever reason]" more compelling than "We've changed our mind about Santana's readiness based on 12 AAA ABs". That ignores the fact that Florimon and Escobar share similar All Glove-No Stick skillsets and having them both on the roster as UTIL types would be redundant.

That would hold true whether Florimon is supplanted by Santana, Drew, Hanley, Didi or Asdrubal.

#117 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:29 PM

There is another option. Depth. I expect Santana to start most of the year in Roch. I also expect Florimon to start most of the year in the majors. But if either gets injured, it would be nice to have a guy who could step in. Until then, Nunez can play several positions in Rochester.


Plenty of depth guys at Rochester already- UTIL guys, too. IMO, Nunez will be up or out of the organization no later than May.

#118 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:40 PM

There's only "no reason" to make this deal if you don't see an advantage to having a bench bat that's got a nice platoon split against lefties and who is (vaguely) able to play all around the infield.

I find "We'd like to replace Bartlett with another infielder and don't want Beresford [for whatever reason]" more compelling than "We've changed our mind about Santana's readiness based on 12 AAA ABs". That ignores the fact that Florimon and Escobar share similar All Glove-No Stick skillsets and having them both on the roster as UTIL types would be redundant.

That would hold true whether Florimon is supplanted by Santana, Drew, Hanley, Didi or Asdrubal.


I was the first to point out the platoon split way back on Page 1, but the problem is he'd have to have a partner to make it work. And not only doesn't it make sense to have another UTIL infielder when the crying need is a 4th OF who can play CF, the Twins have publicly stated they are looking for an upgrade at SS.

And the Twins didn't make up their minds on Santana from his 12 AAA ABs, I'm sure the mis-adventures in both ST and AAA in the field have convinced the Twins to put Santana in go-slow mode until he changes their perceptions of him in that regard- if that was not the case, they certainly could/would have placed Florimon on the DL to start out the season and given Danny a cup of coffee with the big club.

#119 tobi0040

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:40 PM

There is another option. Depth. I expect Santana to start most of the year in Roch. I also expect Florimon to start most of the year in the majors. But if either gets injured, it would be nice to have a guy who could step in. Until then, Nunez can play several positions in Rochester.


Maybe a possibility. But Terry Ryan does not seem likely to move a pitching prospect for utility infield depth. MS had a sub 3.00 era and was by any count the 5th to 7th best pitching prospect in our system.

#120 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:55 PM

There's only "no reason" to make this deal if you don't see an advantage to having a bench bat that's got a nice platoon split against lefties and who is (vaguely) able to play all around the infield.

I find "We'd like to replace Bartlett with another infielder and don't want Beresford [for whatever reason]" more compelling than "We've changed our mind about Santana's readiness based on 12 AAA ABs". That ignores the fact that Florimon and Escobar share similar All Glove-No Stick skillsets and having them both on the roster as UTIL types would be redundant.

That would hold true whether Florimon is supplanted by Santana, Drew, Hanley, Didi or Asdrubal.


I didn't ignore this fact. Florimon has options remaining, he likely would be sent down to either somehow fix his swing to meet minimal ML standards or begin the process of learning to become a UTIL player, which is what his current ability at the plate qualfies him for as a ML player.