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Chris Herrmann Promoted

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#61 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:01 AM

so, bascially, the message is that they are not that good a team.....no real surprise there. Lots of bad players, playing at a level or position they should not be. I'm not sure how three years in, they can't even find guys to field a position, let alone hit at a AAA level.....

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#62 LaBombo

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:37 AM

so, basically, the message is that they are not that good a team.....no real surprise there. Lots of bad players, playing at a level or position they should not be. I'm not sure how three years in, they can't even find guys to field a position, let alone hit at a AAA level.....


Yup. The fact that a catcher's outfield defense is drawing raves ("terrific"!) and is deemed worthy of center speaks volumes about the lowering of the bar for what is surely one of the worst defensive outfields in baseball.

And it's interesting that there's already been an almost angry defense of the Herrmann promotion even though nobody was particularly down on it.

#63 tobi0040

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:04 AM

Herrmann's career AAA line: .227/.297/.312

Herrmann's career MLB line: .189/.268/.297

And he was only moderately above average in AA, and if you consider his age it really wasn't noteworthy at all. The guy can't hit... he will continue to prove this over and over as called upon.


You are missing the point. It is a rational fear to lose the DH spot. Could you imagine if your catcher gets hurt, then your backup catcher gets hurt, and Mauer comes in and he gets hurt? If anything we should call up Eric Fryer, just to be safe.

#64 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:09 AM

BBRef says Herrmann played 21 games right, three in left. No games in center field.


We're also talking about a team that is throwing a mid-30s career shortstop into the outfield for the first time. I think we can throw career positional starts out the window at this point.

#65 cmathewson

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:10 AM

so, bascially, the message is that they are not that good a team.....no real surprise there. Lots of bad players, playing at a level or position they should not be. I'm not sure how three years in, they can't even find guys to field a position, let alone hit at a AAA level.....


How does one temporary injury-related promotion prove that the whole team sucks? Talk about jumping to conclusions. Sheesh!
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#66 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:13 AM

Bartlett, Floriman, Willingham help prove that......it isn't one move, it is three years of odd moves, imo.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#67 cmathewson

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:24 AM

Bartlett, Floriman, Willingham help prove that......it isn't one move, it is three years of odd moves, imo.


So one temporary injury-related move is part of a larger system of odd moves? I think you need to read your signature line and take a deep breath.
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#68 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:32 AM

I'm not mad about it......I'm just continuing to believe they aren't good. You don't think all these moves are related? I do. Every move is related to the other options available. They decided not to have any reserve OF on the roster, and not much in AAA either. So, yes, this is about the decisions they made, not just about this decision. YMMV. And, no, I'm not mad at all. It's just sports, no actual impact on my life at all.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#69 spycake

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:36 AM

How does one temporary injury-related promotion prove that the whole team sucks? Talk about jumping to conclusions. Sheesh!


I guess I won't go as far as mike, but it is a strange situation. Relative to other spots on the roster, backup corner OF might be the absolute easiest spot to fill with a player who possesses both acceptable hitting and defense (if not average to above average skill at one or the other).

All the Twins currently have available to them (on the 40-man) aside from their platoon (perhaps primary?) DH is a 34 year old SS who's been out of baseball for 1.5 years, and a poor hitting AAA catcher who's had spot starts in the corner OF.

This is rendered all the more bizarre given their two STARTING corner OF (Willingham and Arcia) are already considered poor defenders, their lone CF on the 40-man is a young player who struggled mightily last season, and they have two wide open spots on the 40 man roster. Add to it their supposed organizational emphasis on defense, and their apparent construction of a flyball staff, and this is weird stuff.

#70 Ncgo4

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:43 AM

Boy oh boy, you people must be on downers. The Twins are leading the majors in scoring. Haven't you heard we've turned the corner in 2014?

#71 LaBombo

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:48 AM

So one temporary injury-related move is part of a larger system of odd moves?.

'Odd' is the most charitable of the range of applicable words, but yes.

And it's an assessment pretty strongly corroborated by the nearly 300 losses in three seasons...

#72 oldguy10

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

I heartily disagree that one week's play constitutes "turning the corner", let's wait a bit before we rush to judgment, please.

#73 Shane Wahl

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

Boy oh boy, you people must be on downers. The Twins are leading the majors in scoring. Haven't you heard we've turned the corner in 2014?


I agree with you. It's weird. The vilified offense (irrationally vilified) has produced like crazy and the complaining can't end.

Anyway, one would think that those who dislike Florimon so much for his bat would like Herrmann being on the roster (and ultimately instead of Bartlett) because it can free up Pinto to pinch hit.

#74 TKGuy

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:31 AM

I understand people are frustrated by the last three years, but I continue to believe that this team is better and will win about 75 games this year. The only move I still don't get is having Bartlett on the roster. All the bitching about Kubel being there also has been silenced for the moment. The two people who really earned a spot in ST, Colabello and Gibson are off to decent starts. Florimon cannot hit, I agree, but he can field and is not as much of a liability as when the team is not hitting. Have you seen the error numbers of our SS at the minor league levels, atrocious.

Having fun so far this season, exciting Twins games (not very well played, but exciting) and following all of the supposed stud pitchers on the farm.

#75 cmathewson

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:51 AM

I guess I won't go as far as mike, but it is a strange situation. Relative to other spots on the roster, backup corner OF might be the absolute easiest spot to fill with a player who possesses both acceptable hitting and defense (if not average to above average skill at one or the other).

All the Twins currently have available to them (on the 40-man) aside from their platoon (perhaps primary?) DH is a 34 year old SS who's been out of baseball for 1.5 years, and a poor hitting AAA catcher who's had spot starts in the corner OF.

This is rendered all the more bizarre given their two STARTING corner OF (Willingham and Arcia) are already considered poor defenders, their lone CF on the 40-man is a young player who struggled mightily last season, and they have two wide open spots on the 40 man roster. Add to it their supposed organizational emphasis on defense, and their apparent construction of a flyball staff, and this is weird stuff.


I am on record as saying I thought the Presley move was a mistake, or an odd move, to use Mike's term. I would have preferred to tell Bartlett that he had to earn his way up than just give him a job out of spring training. If he walks, oh well. And I hope they end the experiment sooner rather than later, unless he improves miraculously.

I just want to avoid sweeping conclusions from injury replacements. Hermann wasn't part of some grand plan. He was just the best available guy for the bench at this time, all things considered. Yeah every move is related in some way to every other move. But many of them are not planned. You have likely outcomes and contingencies. The complexity of possibilities turns to chaos in a month or so, given all the options. This qualifies as a contingency. To make it seem like it's part of a three-year plan is giving it way too much credit.

And I don't think you are quite fair to Arcia by calling him a poor defender. Maybe he was last year, but it is a bit early in his career to stick that label on him. He was a 21-year-old rookie who had hardly any time adjusting to second decks prior to being thrown into the outfield in the majors. He has show noticeable improvement in just one offseason. I have every reason to believe he will be an above average defender in his career. He certainly has the tools to do it.

Willingham is a different story, but just one offseason ago everyone here was lauding that move as a "steal". When he hits, his defense is not nearly as important as it seemed last year, when he wasn't hitting. Which, by the way, was almost entirely related to an injury.

Edited by cmathewson, 07 April 2014 - 10:57 AM.

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#76 TheDean

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

Well, it's official. Everyone's favorite super utility veteran to the DL for Herrmann. Now we can pretend Bartlett wasn't here in the first place, and Pinto can PH/DH while Zukes continues with that red hot production. Nothing to see here.

#77 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:07 AM

Fair enough, CMAT, but if they don't have a grand plan, of which the first injury call up is a part, then they have an issue, imo. They should have a grand plan. It should take into account possible injuries. I'm not asking for a legit MLB to be in AAA, but how about one actual OFer?

And, yes, the Bartlett thing is maddening.

I remain hopeful that at some point, the minors will product players. The Rosario and Sano things were killers for any hope for this year, outside of Meyer, imo. And, while I don't get mad about the Twins, or depressed, or anything like that, I am dissapointed by many decisions this offseason, and I remain skeptical about their ability to fix things in any short timespan, or even at all, frankly.

How a team with this much money passed on Abreu, well, I remain baffled.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#78 spycake

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:09 AM

I just want to avoid sweeping conclusions from injury replacements. Hermann wasn't part of some grand plan. He was just the best available guy for the bench at this time, all things considered. Yeah every move is related in some way to every other move. But many of them are not planned. You have likely outcomes and contingencies. The complexity of possibilities turns to chaos in a month or so, given all the options. This qualifies as a contingency. To make it seem like it's part of a three-year plan is giving it way too much credit.


Hermann was the first guy called up after an injury to an outfielder. That's not exactly an odd "contingency" situation, it happens to virtually every team, probably multiple times per season.

The Twins OF depth chart is apparently something like this:

Hicks
Willingham
Arcia
Kubel
Bartlett
Colabello
Hermann
???

And that's the beginning of the season, with full health, after an offseason of planning, after every team has made their spring cuts and the Twins still have two open 40-man spots.

I get that Bartlett is the standout oddity here, but that's one strange "Plan A" OF depth chart all the way through.

#79 spycake

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:10 AM

And I don't think you are quite fair to Arcia by calling him a poor defender.


Not trying to pick on Arcia, but when he's the #2 defensive outfielder on your team, at this point of his career, that's a problem.

#80 cmathewson

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:42 AM

Well, it's official. Everyone's favorite super utility veteran to the DL for Herrmann. Now we can pretend Bartlett wasn't here in the first place, and Pinto can PH/DH while Zukes continues with that red hot production. Nothing to see here.


I was just going to post this. Bartlett got an "ankle sprain" just in time to bring Hermann in while giving the team a couple of more days for Hammer's and Arcia's injuries to provide more clarity. They have two spots open for additions if necessary. Mastro and Parmelee are tops on the list. But Ramirez is a possibility.
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