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Bartlett... What not?

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#1 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

To be honest, I am pretty thrilled with the way the Twins have opened the 2013 season. They are 2-3, but I have liked the way a lot of the guys came out of the gate.

Pedro Florimon has been put in a compromising situation this season. He definitely should have been placed on the DL and given some time in extended spring training to recover from his appendectomy surgery.

Right now, no matter the the Twins choices, they should give Bartlett a chance to play SS on an everyday basis.

In my opinion, Florimon and Escobar are not future type fixes to the Twins SS needs, and I feel they should give Bartlett a shot.

Right now, we do not have a SS of the future, in that case you need to find out what you have and put the best available piece forward.

Maybe Bartlett is the guy to fill the gap. 5 years ago he was an all-star with fantastic numbers, the two years surrounding him on the back and front end were acceptable.

Bartlett's been out of MLB for 1.5 years. Who is to say he cannot be better than our other options?

I guarantee he will be better than Florimon, in this day of age, you need some semblance of offense to go with your defense.

Jason Bartlett is our best bet.

There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#2 drock2190

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:06 PM

He will get his shot when injuries or poor performances occur. We don't need to rush him in there, let the younger guys play.

#3 stringer bell

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:15 PM

No and not Bartlett. Florimon had time to recover from his appendectomy and he is running fine and throwing and swinging well. He should not have been disabled. Florimon is 1-12 with five K's. Hardly a great start, but he hasn't looked overmatched on every AB. Mauer and Dozier started out as bad or worse, and so have a number of prominent players. Give Florimon at least another week before howling for a replacement. There is nothing to show that Bartlett is not used up.

#4 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:32 PM

The only problem is your main justification for using Bartlett is also a justification for using any other player:

"Since _________ and _______ are not shortstops of the future, we might as well use _________ to fill the gap."

But to your other point, Bartlett could probably out hit Florimon. But ironically with the offense starting hot, Florimons bat is not such a liability. Florimon's glove is good to great, depending on who you ask.

Also, Gardy loves Florimon as much as he loves Bartlett, so there's that. :) either of those two guys could have justifiably started at AAA and no one would have blinked an eye. But here they are.

#5 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:34 PM

No way. Bartlett shouldn't even be on the roster, much less starting!

#6 LaBombo

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:16 AM

[QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;211214]To be honest, I am pretty thrilled with the way the Twins have opened the 2013 season. They are 2-3[/QUOTE]
The last time they opened the 2013 season, they went 4 and 2 before the unpleasantness in KC.;)

[QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;211214]
Pedro Florimon has been put in a compromising situation this season. [/QUOTE]
Let me guess. Batting?:P

[QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;211214]Jason Bartlett is our best bet.[/QUOTE]
Posted Image
You're our best and only hope, JF!

#7 twinsnorth49

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:34 AM

The last time they opened the 2013 season


They opened the 2013 season more than once? What did I miss?

#8 glunn

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:45 AM

I think that we should all keep an open mind about Bartlett. He seems healthy and motivated. Maybe he can get close to his prior effectiveness.

#9 ScottyB

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:33 AM

Twins should have gone for Bonifacio - switch hitter batting .542 with 4 SB already. A much better option on the bench than Bartlett because of speed and versatility. He's already played CF, 2B and SS for the Cubs. He's not an outstanding fielder, but he's adequate. He can also play 3B, corner OF and probably 1B.

Edited by ScottyB, 06 April 2014 - 04:35 AM.


#10 stringer bell

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:50 AM

Twins should have gone for Bonifacio - switch hitter batting .542 with 4 SB already. A much better option on the bench than Bartlett because of speed and versatility. He's already played CF, 2B and SS for the Cubs. He's not an outstanding fielder, but he's adequate. He can also play 3B, corner OF and probably 1B.

I was on the Bonafacio bandwagon. One week doesn't a season make, but he is off to a nice start.

#11 Thrylos

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:19 AM

Free Eduardo Escobar
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#12 cmathewson

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:26 AM

Florimon is taking good at bats. He'll start getting his hits. Give him a few more weeks before giving the job to someone else. Escobar is next in line and then Bartlett. Bartlett belongs on the bench primarily. If he's starting at short at some time this year, things have not gone well. I'd rather call up Santana mid season if both Florimon and Escobar fail.

I suppose it depends on how you define failure. To me, what Florimon did last year is the floor. Anything below that for a sustained period constitutes failure in my book. But you have to give him a chance to fail. One week does not constitute a chance.
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#13 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:56 AM

I've posted this before, but IMO the Twins primary reason for keeping Bartlett around was cheap insurance against the possibility they decide they can't live with Florimon's offense any more.

However, I don't think they will make that call one week into the season. Nor should they.

I do, however, disagree that "Florimon is taking good ABs." If I recall correctly, in four games he's gotten the ball out of the infield twice, his one hit was a seeing eye ground ball, he has 5 Ks to 1 BB, and the manager thinks so little of him he's been asked to sacrifice in the third inning.

i also disagree with the position that last year constitutes the floor for "success.". A 69 OPS+ cannot be considered acceptable. He's not going to hit .083, but his offense WILL be a problem, IMO.

#14 cmathewson

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:09 AM

I do, however, disagree that "Florimon is taking good ABs." If I recall correctly, in four games he's gotten the ball out of the infield twice, his one hit was a seeing eye ground ball, he has 5 Ks to 1 BB, and the manager thinks so little of him he's been asked to sacrifice in the third inning.

i also disagree with the position that last year constitutes the floor for "success.". A 69 OPS+ cannot be considered acceptable. He's not going to hit .083, but his offense WILL be a problem, IMO.


Maybe I should revise my definition of a good at bat. Maybe I should say he's taking long at bats. Because, you know, the outcome does matter. By my definition, Drew Butera took good at bats. But when he did finally make contact, the ball came off his bat like a Christian Ponder pass in the flat. The difference is, Florimon has a chance to drive the ball after taking several pitches and fouling off others. Drew rarely had that chance.

And I should have clarified: I think last year's SS offensive output constitutes failure. But I also think the defense made up for it quite a bit. And clearly the Twins thought the combination was adequate. In any event, my comments about it being the floor reflect the Twins position rather than my own. Of course I'd rather have offense approaching that of Stephen Drew. But it is clear the Twins are indifferent at best about it because they continue to pass up an opportunity to sign him.
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#15 Willihammer

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

I think the issue is that some of us view Bartlett as a wild card, sort of like Kubel (or Johan), who if he regains his prior form would be good enough to command regular at-bats. The Twins don't see it that way, at least not Gardy. Gardy only needed to see 1 spring training game (a minor league game) from Florimon to declare "he's our shortstop." They never saw Bartlett as a wildcard. Granted, Bartlett didn't blow anyone's socks off in ST to press the issue. Its Gardy's call, they're W-L is 2-3 so who are we to argue with it.

#16 Willihammer

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:18 AM

Twins should have gone for Bonifacio - switch hitter batting .542 with 4 SB already. A much better option on the bench than Bartlett because of speed and versatility. He's already played CF, 2B and SS for the Cubs. He's not an outstanding fielder, but he's adequate. He can also play 3B, corner OF and probably 1B.


Bonifacio is making a lot of clubs regret passing on him right now. 13/24 out the chute.

#17 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:23 AM

But when he did finally make contact, the ball came off his bat like a Christian Ponder pass in the flat.

That made me laugh...well played sir.

#18 jorgenswest

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

Bartlett would have to hit far better than his career numbers to make up for the fielding deficit created by replacing Florimon. Is there any reason to believe that he will hit that well?

By removing Florimon the Twins remove their best defensive player from a poor defensive line up. The only other player who is certain to be average or better is Dozier. Hopefully Hicks will join them. Mauer? No one else is close to average.

#19 cmathewson

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:41 AM

Bartlett would have to hit far better than his career numbers to make up for the fielding deficit created by replacing Florimon. Is there any reason to believe that he will hit that well?

By removing Florimon the Twins remove their best defensive player from a poor defensive line up. The only other player who is certain to be average or better is Dozier. Hopefully Hicks will join them. Mauer? No one else is close to average.


I agree the main reason they stick with Florimon is his defense. Escobar is abetter hitter, but he doesn't have the range of Florimon.

But I disagree on your assessment of the defense. I'd say it is an accurate description of the team last year. But I saw improvement this spring. I'd say Plouffe is close to average. Arcia has shown a lot of improvement. Both he and Hicks struggled last year with fuller second decks in the majors. They're both getting used to it. He has a chance to be average. Even Willignham looks like he's moving around a lot better out there than he did last year. It's hard to overestimate the impact of his injury on his range. He'll never be average, but he'll be better than he was last year. I also think they'll be improved behind the plate, if only because they will no longer have the worst defensive catcher in baseball back there.

I continue to have concerns about Mauer's defense. It's not as good as Morneau's. He looked great in his previous stints at the position. But this year, he's booted and bobbled a lot more balls than I expected. For my money, Colabello is the better first baseman. I expect Mauer to improve to being just average. He's not there yet.
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#20 lukingood

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:09 AM

I certainly agree with you about Mauer. He has looked rough at first base. For my money, I would put Escobar at short, but Gardenhire has never asked me for my opinion. And why not give Bartlett a game or so at short and see how he looks.

#21 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:09 AM

That made me laugh...well played sir.


Any Ponder crack is a good one, but that one was especially well played cmat!

#22 spycake

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:07 PM

I hereby support any plan that removes Jason Bartlett from the outfield.

#23 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:13 PM

I'm beginning to believe the last few years have been a social experiment by the Twins to see just how god-awful a fielder they can run out to the corner OF and get away with it.

Between Doumit and Bartlett I'd have to imagine very few teams have run out worse the last few years. Someone tell me why the hell Parmelee isn't on this team?

#24 jokin

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:56 PM

I'm beginning to believe the last few years have been a social experiment by the Twins to see just how god-awful a fielder they can run out to the corner OF and get away with it.

Between Doumit and Bartlett I'd have to imagine very few teams have run out worse the last few years. Someone tell me why the hell Parmelee isn't on this team?


It's hard to make Josh Willingham look like a Gold Glove left-fielder by comparison to "Mr. 25th man team chemist" and the manager look ridiculous in just one afternoon, but the Twins "social experiment" just accomplished the impossible

Since this whole fiasco is pretty much owned by just one Twins decision-maker, I think Gardy used up all of his "Mr 1000 Wins!!" goodwill in less than 24 hours.

#25 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:43 PM

It's hard to make Josh Willingham look like a Gold Glove left-fielder by comparison to "Mr. 25th man team chemist" and the manager look ridiculous in just one afternoon, but the Twins "social experiment" just accomplished the impossible

Since this whole fiasco is pretty much owned by just one Twins decision-maker, I think Gardy used up all of his "Mr 1000 Wins!!" goodwill in less than 24 hours.


I dunno, if you'd believe Gardy tell it (in the post game presser) Bartlett played pretty well out there and just got an unlucky bounce of the wall, and some unlucky wind shifts on a few balls.

#26 Thrylos

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:56 PM

I think that the Twins will keep Bartlett around for a week or so and then, if he does not improve with the stick, will cut him loose. With both Arcia and Willingham day to day and potentially out, I would not be surprised if there is a move in the works to get another OF to MN. And if that happens Bartlett is toast, because none of the Redwings OF (and I am not talking about Rahl, he will not be the one up; one of Ramirez, Mastroianni and Parmelee is) are out of options.

Unless they think out of the box and pull a good one and get the only Outfielder on the 40 man roster with options up North while Arcia and/or Willingham are mending. He is better fielder than Bartlett at this point and his bat might even play better in the majors than Bartlett's these days. But that might be too much out of the box thinking for them.

For me Florimon is a bigger issue at this point and he needs to sit for Escobar for a while...
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#27 jokin

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:06 PM

I dunno, if you'd believe Gardy tell it (in the post game presser) Bartlett played pretty well out there and just got an unlucky bounce of the wall, and some unlucky wind shifts on a few balls.


I just watched the replay. The lead-in to the presser was a recorded tribute to Gardy from Ryan and Kelly to mark the 1000th win. In respect to today's outcome, Kelly got it right about Gardy's historical willingness in taking wild and crazy chances, but Ryan's tribute rang hollow regarding how much he respects the game and is driven to playing the game the right way. I didn't have a problem with most of the tenor of his exposition of the game, but regarding his thoughts on Bartlett's performance, well, that struck me as him feeling bad for putting someone in a position he had no business being.

#28 jokin

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:12 PM

I think that the Twins will keep Bartlett around for a week or so and then, if he does not improve with the stick, will cut him loose. With both Arcia and Willingham day to day and potentially out, I would not be surprised if there is a move in the works to get another OF to MN. And if that happens Bartlett is toast, because none of the Redwings OF (and I am not talking about Rahl, he will not be the one up; one of Ramirez, Mastroianni and Parmelee is) are out of options.

Unless they think out of the box and pull a good one and get the only Outfielder on the 40 man roster with options up North while Arcia and/or Willingham are mending. He is better fielder than Bartlett at this point and his bat might even play better in the majors than Bartlett's these days. But that might be too much out of the box thinking for them.

For me Florimon is a bigger issue at this point and he needs to sit for Escobar for a while...

It's been announced that Hermann is coming up. How about Kepler.....AND Polanco, as well, optioning Florimon back to Rochester? That's an outside the box, wild and crazy risk 2-fer.... it would definitely get my attention.

#29 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:33 PM

I just watched the replay. The lead-in to the presser was a recorded tribute to Gardy from Ryan and Kelly to mark the 1000th win. In respect to today's outcome, Kelly got it right about Gardy's historical willingness in taking wild and crazy chances, but Ryan's tribute rang hollow regarding how much he respects the game and is driven to playing the game the right way. I didn't have a problem with most of the tenor of his exposition of the game, but regarding his thoughts on Bartlett's performance, well, that struck me as him feeling bad for putting someone in a position he had no business being.


Yeah, that is a good point. I hadn't really thought about it that way.

#30 Reider

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:04 PM

Florimon is taking good at bats. He'll start getting his hits. Give him a few more weeks before giving the job to someone else. Escobar is next in line and then Bartlett. Bartlett belongs on the bench primarily. If he's starting at short at some time this year, things have not gone well. I'd rather call up Santana mid season if both Florimon and Escobar fail.

I suppose it depends on how you define failure. To me, what Florimon did last year is the floor. Anything below that for a sustained period constitutes failure in my book. But you have to give him a chance to fail. One week does not constitute a chance.

I agree. And the positive about Florimon is that people thought he got off to a slow start defensively last year. This year he seems to be rock solid from the get go. He's catching balls in foul territory that get blown by the wind, he's turning double plays flawlessly, and his arm is as strong as ever. The offense is producing. 6 games in and fans are ready to replace him.

6 games.

As for Bartlett, he hasn't looked good offensively or defensively, but he's been out of the game for a while. Either you don't give him a chance or you give him a real opportunity. The Twins decided to give him a real opportunity (it wasn't my call). You don't give him a week, then cut him. At least give him a couple of months to see if he can get some rust off.

Edited by Reider, 06 April 2014 - 08:07 PM.