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#1 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:53 PM

Kevin Correia is not an ace. In fact, as of now the Twins don't have an ace on the staff, in fact they probably don't even have a #2. (Gibson has #2 upside, but most players never reach their upside, so more realistic expectations are a solid #3).
Kevin Correia is not going to give you 6 innings of 2 run ball very often. When he does, you have to find a way to win.
If you can't win a game when Correia gives you a start like that, and you are facing a bad team, with a mediocre starting pitcher who hasn't pitched in going on two years, then you probably arent going to find many wins.
Today we learned that the Twins are a bad team, and while it is great that they took some steps to upgrade their pitching staff, this is proof that alone that is no guarantee that you'll be a better team.

#2 Seth Stohs

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:02 PM

Just a couple thoughts in response:

1.) Has anyone really ever called Kevin Correia an Ace? He was the Twins best pitcher (arguably) last year, but no one puts him in the "ace" category.
2.) We learned today that this is a pretty bad team? I'm a positive guy and I think I'd say most everyone here knew that before today.

#3 Ncgo4

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:27 PM

Very disappointing loss, no doubt. I, too, expect this will be a long season of heartbreaking losses. Today, however was only one game. My concern is that the loss was partly caused by a failure in fundamentals. Watching base runners, rushing a throw to the plate on a dead runner, pitcher and first baseman not communicating well on a runner going to first. These kinds of things seemed to happen more seldom under Tom Kelly. Is this possibly a reflection on coaching?

#4 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:39 PM

Just a couple thoughts in response:

1.) Has anyone really ever called Kevin Correia an Ace? He was the Twins best pitcher (arguably) last year, but no one puts him in the "ace" category.
2.) We learned today that this is a pretty bad team? I'm a positive guy and I think I'd say most everyone here knew that before today.


I think you missed my point.
The reason I point out that Correia is not an ace is because you are not going to get many starts like this from him, when you do you HAVE to find a way to win, especially if said start is against a bad team with a bad starting pitcher.

#5 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:57 PM

We all knew this was a pretty bad team?

I must have missed that in all the bullish predictions and the multiple threads feigning shock at all the "negativity"......

(Still, it's been two days, gonna wait a bit to pass any profound judgments on the team just yet)

#6 TKGuy

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:06 PM

It's baseball and I felt just as bad with this loss as if we were in the pennant race. Correia continued success means trade talk also, which is certainly exciting also. Hicks has certainly responded well and Colabello has also started out well. Excited to see Pinto and Gibson.

Also excited to have the minors starting tomorrow. I'm sick of NFL talk.

#7 Lesser Dali

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:16 PM

To add to this thread - baseball should not be played in these kind of weather conditions. You will not see a fundamentally good baseball game played when it is below 55 degrees F.

I wish the season started later and MLB would have a schedule that has double headers built into the season that would alleviate upper mid-west baseball clubs from playing in winter conditions.

Also, like the NFL's Super Bowl. The World Series should be played in a warm climate destination.

I want to see baseball executed the right way and not effected by winter weather and the temperatures it brings with it.
...and it's nice enough to make a man weep,
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#8 Marta Shearing

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:31 PM

Very disappointing loss, no doubt. I, too, expect this will be a long season of heartbreaking losses. Today, however was only one game. My concern is that the loss was partly caused by a failure in fundamentals. Watching base runners, rushing a throw to the plate on a dead runner, pitcher and first baseman not communicating well on a runner going to first. These kinds of things seemed to happen more seldom under Tom Kelly. Is this possibly a reflection on coaching?

Gardy inherited a fundamentally sound team from TK. Since that group slowly faded away, Gardenhire's done a pitiful job of teaching fundamentals. Its ironic how TK's teams were super fundamentally sound, yet he never said a word. Gardy's teams are bad to mediocre at fundamentals, yet he's always tooted his own horn about "playing the game the right way" and so on. He's a very overrated manager in my book.

#9 Nick Nelson

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:32 PM

True story:

A few years ago me and my buddies were walking along at the State Fair, and we came across the Giant Yellow Slide -- a towering three level structure that is a central fixture at the Great MN Get-Together. You pay two bucks, hop on a little carpet rectangle and cruise on down. None of us had ridden it since we were kids, so we said, "Yeah, let's do it!"

As you may be aware, this is a pretty tame slide. It descends, then levels out, descends, then levels out. We were reminded of this as we slowly slid down and came to a dissatisfied halt at the bottom. My friend looked at me and said, "Well that sucked."

Some underpaid teenage worker who was passing by collecting discarded carpet squares overheard and replied, "What'd you expect, man?"

That story pretty much summarizes my feelings about this thread.

#10 Halsey Hall

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:41 PM

Gardy inherited a fundamentally sound team from TK. Since that group slowly faded away, Gardenhire's done a pitiful job of teaching fundamentals. Its ironic how TK's teams were super fundamentally sound, yet he never said a word. Gardy's teams are bad to mediocre at fundamentals, yet he's always tooted his own horn about "playing the game the right way" and so on. He's a very overrated manager in my book.


TK would of had the Luckiest Man in the World out there at 3rd after the game working. He did that alot with players that kept screwing up. Gardy, no.

#11 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:47 PM

Oh come on man, last time I checked this is still a mlb team isn't it?
Is it really THAT much to ask of them to find a way to win a game in which they get a really good starting pitching performance, against a bad team?
To answer to your hilarious (and not atall condescending) anecdote, yes I think many of us expected them to be bad, but then again I think just as many have said they would be improved. Heck more than a few have even said .500. So far, this does not look like an improved team, and certainly not a .500 team.

#12 Tibs

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:49 PM

On top of other things mentioned, I was disappointed at the ability to get a bunt down today. How many of them were popped up? It's a very simple thing to do, especially for major leaguers.
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#13 bear333

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

Kevin Correia is not an ace. In fact, as of now the Twins don't have an ace on the staff, in fact they probably don't even have a #2. (Gibson has #2 upside, but most players never reach their upside, so more realistic expectations are a solid #3).
Kevin Correia is not going to give you 6 innings of 2 run ball very often. When he does, you have to find a way to win.
If you can't win a game when Correia gives you a start like that, and you are facing a bad team, with a mediocre starting pitcher who hasn't pitched in going on two years, then you probably arent going to find many wins.
Today we learned that the Twins are a bad team, and while it is great that they took some steps to upgrade their pitching staff, this is proof that alone that is no guarantee that you'll be a better team.

What bad teams do is find ways to loose. The Twins are a bad team that is poorly managed. It will be a long season for Twins fans,

#14 biggentleben

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

To add to this thread - baseball should not be played in these kind of weather conditions. You will not see a fundamentally good baseball game played when it is below 55 degrees F.

I wish the season started later and MLB would have a schedule that has double headers built into the season that would alleviate upper mid-west baseball clubs from playing in winter conditions.

Also, like the NFL's Super Bowl. The World Series should be played in a warm climate destination.

I want to see baseball executed the right way and not effected by winter weather and the temperatures it brings with it.


I couldn't disagree with this more. I don't feel it's natural to play baseball when it's 110 degrees and the ball carries 15-20 feet further as much as it's not natural to play at 50 degrees. However, that's the absolute beauty of baseball. The game should be able to be played at a high level in a multitude of conditions. The best part of the game is that it can be played very well despite conditions, once one has some experience in handling those conditions. A pitcher learns in a rain game that the curve doesn't hold well, but the slider has a bit more bite. The hitter learns in Wrigley in May, you hit the ball in the air toward left field for a chance to get the ball out. Baseball is not played in a bubble, and frankly, that's what makes it tremendous!
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#15 Nick Nelson

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

Oh come on man, last time I checked this is still a mlb team isn't it?
Is it really THAT much to ask of them to find a way to win a game in which they get a really good starting pitching performance, against a bad team?
To answer to your hilarious (and not atall condescending) anecdote, yes I think many of us expected them to be bad, but then again I think just as many have said they would be improved. Heck more than a few have even said .500. So far, this does not look like an improved team, and certainly not a .500 team.


They have played two games.

I'm plenty capable of negativity (and it will come out more and more as this season grinds on, I'm guessing) but they're 0-2, not 0-20. Today's game was a mistake-filled affair between two teams that aren't very good. Twins lost because of a (hopefully) fluky bad outing from their reigning All-Star closer.

Unless you expected the Twins to be caught up in a tight pennant race in mid-September, there's no reason to get too worked up about a single loss. I guess that's my point. I don't mean to downplay your general disappointment; that is warranted.

#16 bear333

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

The easy solution is to have northern teams start out the season playing in the south or on the coast. Why is that so hard for MLB to figure out?

#17 biggentleben

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:04 PM

The easy solution is to have northern teams start out the season playing in the south or on the coast. Why is that so hard for MLB to figure out?


It's impossible to do and completely unfair to fans of those northern teams. One of the MLB's heads of scheduling was on Buster Olney's podcast last summer, and it was impressive to listen to her describe the incredible amount of factors in how they put together a schedule. On average, more games are affected by rain in any average month of the season than cold in any combination of three seasons.
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#18 Kwak

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:23 PM

I must agree with most posters--it's much too early to start complaining about baseball, there is almost 6 months remaining! We'll have lots of time for complaining. Look on the bright side: they had a lead going into the bottom of the 9th--and improvement over game #1. Two games, both competitively interesting.

#19 Marta Shearing

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:38 PM

The easy solution is to have northern teams start out the season playing in the south or on the coast. Why is that so hard for MLB to figure out?

I just think its ridiculous starting the season March 31. The season should never start before April 10. Play more doubleheaders.

#20 SgtSchmidt11

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:44 PM

To add to this thread - baseball should not be played in these kind of weather conditions. You will not see a fundamentally good baseball game played when it is below 55 degrees F.

I wish the season started later and MLB would have a schedule that has double headers built into the season that would alleviate upper mid-west baseball clubs from playing in winter conditions.

Also, like the NFL's Super Bowl. The World Series should be played in a warm climate destination.

I want to see baseball executed the right way and not effected by winter weather and the temperatures it brings with it.


I must have missed this one when I was playing in HS. Seemed like we practiced and played in snow plenty often.

#21 twinsnorth49

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:51 PM

Only 2 games back of the division lead and a wild card spot!

Teams blow good performances by a starting pitcher all the time, bad teams just do it more often.

How 'bout that Hicks fella eh?

#22 Highabove

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:26 PM

The Twins had a win, but their All-Star Closer gave it up.
It's unfortunate that it happened so soon, but that's Baseball.

Edited by Highabove, 03 April 2014 - 01:20 AM.


#23 Heimer

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:07 PM

People relax there is plenty of season left.

#24 ScrapTheNickname

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:49 AM

I'm not sure what is more depressing, the Twins or all our comments about the Twins. I think I'm going to take a break ... already.

#25 CRArko

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:56 AM

"What'd you expect, man?"


The Spanish Inquisition.

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:32 AM

1. We knew this team was going to be bad. The real question is whether it's 65 wins bad or 75 wins bad.

2. They've played two games. That is less than 1/80th of the season.

3. The Twins had this game in the bag and their All Star closer scuffled and then was let down by his defense. It happens. Whether it happens twice this season or once every two weeks will play out in time.

4. Two games.

#27 JB_Iowa

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:46 AM

I blame the Twins P.R. department. They should never have scheduled the Gardenhire 1,000th win celebration for 4/9.

2 wins in 7 (now 2 in 5) games to achieve that 1,000th win? Especially with the threat of weather-related cancellations?

Undue pressure. Never publicly schedule a celebration unless you know the event will happen. Why tempt the baseball fates?

#28 Dman

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:10 AM

I must agree with most posters--it's much too early to start complaining about baseball, there is almost 6 months remaining! We'll have lots of time for complaining. Look on the bright side: they had a lead going into the bottom of the 9th--and improvement over game #1. Two games, both competitively interesting.


I agree with you. I am happy that at least we have had a chance to win each game going into the 8th or 9th inning. I am hoping to see more of that this year. While the wins are important to keep fans in the seats I am happy just to see Hicks, Kubel, Ploufe and CC hitting well and hopefully improving.

I just want to see the young guys have some decent success and the pitchers keep us in games. That is success enough for me this year.

#29 iTwins

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:17 AM

All I learned from yesterday's game was that Direct TV makes a quality remote, as mine was rather viciously spiked into the floor after Deduno uncorked the game losing pitch.

Other than that, I'd say two games is far too early to make any concrete statements about this team. Yup, it was a bad loss, but it doesn't set the tone for the season.

#30 tobi0040

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:17 AM

We all knew this was a pretty bad team?

I must have missed that in all the bullish predictions and the multiple threads feigning shock at all the "negativity"......


Based on my memory of the projection threads, about 90% of people predicted they were 3-5 games better than last year. More people predicted same or worse than last year than predicted a .500 team.

I don't consider these bullish, that is like a 71 win team.