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Will possible Catcher of the future, ever play again?

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#1 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:09 PM

Has the youngster, Kurt Suzuki grabbed the catching job by the throat and forced aging prospect, Josmil Pinto, to be a MiLB Catcher for the rest of his short career?

Gardy was quoted before today's game with this nugget.

"I just feel like the young guy should get his chances on this team, I mean we aren't very good, why sit around and give chances to guys who are older and not answers to the future of this team?" "I want to see what our young guys can do, that's why Kurt is going to be back there instead of Pinto."


I'm just having some fun. I am pleased with Suzuki's hot start, but if you think he is going to hit .500 you are crazy. I am not so happy that Pinto hasn't played yet, especially with a good PH opportunity on Monday. Hopefully he gets the start behind the dish tomorrow and a DH start on Friday.

#2 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:11 PM

I believe that Gardy said Pinto will catch Hughes tomorrow.

Though I don't know where the Twins will find offense without Suzuki in the lineup.

:D

#3 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:14 PM

Bartlett will pinch run for Pinto in the 2nd inning and get Kurt's stick back in.

#4 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:19 PM

Forget it, Suzuki just doubled, I'm all in. Fill in the blank spaces, let's sign him long-term.

#5 CRArko

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

Maybe if Pinto catches Suzuki will DH. :)

#6 gunnarthor

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:31 PM

It's a bit early to worry about Pinto's playing time.

#7 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 03:35 PM

It's a bit early to worry about Pinto's playing time.


Is this similar to the statement "It's a bit early to worry about wins and losses?"

#8 Riverbrian

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:00 PM

My wife is worried that she might get worried.
A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

#9 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

I like you and that post.

#10 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:34 PM

It will be hard to take 'zuke out of the lineup as long as he's hitting. He will cool off at some point then we'll see Pinto more.

#11 ashburyjohn

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:02 PM

He will cool off at some point


Catchers do not play long consecutive sequences of games regardless. Pinto will play. And if he makes use of the opportunities he gets, he will play more, and probably soon.

#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:22 PM

I'm ok with the playing time share being 2/3 Suzuki. I'm just hoping it stays around that percentage early on and transitioning to a flip of that by the end of the year.

#13 jokin

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:27 PM

Has the youngster, Kurt Suzuki grabbed the catching job by the throat and forced aging prospect, Josmil Pinto, to be a MiLB Catcher for the rest of his short career?

Gardy was quoted before today's game with this nugget.

"I just feel like the young guy should get his chances on this team, I mean we aren't very good, why sit around and give chances to guys who are older and not answers to the future of this team?" "I want to see what our young guys can do, that's why Kurt is going to be back there instead of Pinto."


I'm just having some fun. I am pleased with Suzuki's hot start, but if you think he is going to hit .500 you are crazy. I am not so happy that Pinto hasn't played yet, especially with a good PH opportunity on Monday. Hopefully he gets the start behind the dish tomorrow and a DH start on Friday.


He had at least 3 good PH opportunities today for Florimon w/ RISP and one obvious one for Bartlett in the DH spot in the 8th.

#14 Marta Shearing

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:47 AM

If Escobar has any trade value I'd like to see what they can get for him. Herrmann has to be on this team.

#15 Shane Wahl

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:13 AM

This is where Herrmann instead of Bartlett makes sense. Pinto could have been used in each of these games to pinch hit, but, given Gardenhire's terror of only having one catcher, it is rarely going to happen. It isn't like Herrmann would be any worse than Bartlett in CF for at most one game if something were to happen mid-game to Hicks.

#16 spycake

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:55 AM

He had at least 3 good PH opportunities today for Florimon w/ RISP and one obvious one for Bartlett in the DH spot in the 8th.


Yeah, not pinch hitting for Bartlett was pretty inexcusable.

Basically, if we ever pinch-run for our DH, we should definitely PH Pinto if the spot comes up again and he's available on the bench. That way, you're not "burning through" Pinto -- he stays in the game, and if something happens to Suzuki, you just lose the DH (which is a much better outcome than having to use your emergency catcher).

#17 REPETE

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:06 AM

Has anyone ever explained to Gardy that if both his catchers are in the lineup, and the one behind the plate gets hurt, that when the DH/pitcher spot comes up, he can pinch hit? This would allow him to get Bartlett an AB!

#18 spycake

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:12 AM

Catchers do not play long consecutive sequences of games regardless. Pinto will play. And if he makes use of the opportunities he gets, he will play more, and probably soon.


With a 1/3 share of starts (which was speculated by our esteemed broadcasters recently), that opportunity is only 2 games per week. Playing only twice a week is essentially a bench spot / true backup catcher. And thus it qualifies as "jerking a player around" and messing with his hitting development and rhythm, far more than (for example) sitting Parmelee 2 games a week last year.

Hopefully Pinto is good enough to shine through this, but we're not exactly giving him a clear path here. I'd prefer a true 50-50 split, or better yet, Pinto getting 2/3 of the starts (either at C or DH).

#19 Linus

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:21 AM

With a 1/3 share of starts (which was speculated by our esteemed broadcasters recently), that opportunity is only 2 games per week. Playing only twice a week is essentially a bench spot / true backup catcher. And thus it qualifies as "jerking a player around" and messing with his hitting development and rhythm, far more than (for example) sitting Parmelee 2 games a week last year.

Hopefully Pinto is good enough to shine through this, but we're not exactly giving him a clear path here. I'd prefer a true 50-50 split, or better yet, Pinto getting 2/3 of the starts (either at C or DH).


This. Send him to Rochester and let him play every day. Its pretty clear already that Gardy won't let him pinch hit or DH so put him somewhere he can be the regular catcher. Its crazy to have a 25 year old valuable prospect riding the pine.

#20 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

With a 1/3 share of starts (which was speculated by our esteemed broadcasters recently), that opportunity is only 2 games per week. Playing only twice a week is essentially a bench spot / true backup catcher. And thus it qualifies as "jerking a player around" and messing with his hitting development and rhythm, far more than (for example) sitting Parmelee 2 games a week last year.

Hopefully Pinto is good enough to shine through this, but we're not exactly giving him a clear path here. I'd prefer a true 50-50 split, or better yet, Pinto getting 2/3 of the starts (either at C or DH).


I think Pinto could learn a lot by being on the MLB roster. He can work with Suzuki, Steinbach, and Mauer to shore up his defensive issues. I have no problem with Suzuki getting the majority of starts early in the season while Pinto works on defense, gets the occasional start, and learns from veteran catchers.

But not playing him at DH to get his bat into a rhythm... It's just baffling.

For lack of another way to put it, it's really dumb. I don't understand why Gardy has such a problem with putting the second catcher at DH. It simply does not matter.

I give Gardy a pass for a lot of things but this one can't be ignored. It's too obvious a decision. I don't understand how an intelligent man (and I do not question that Gardy is intelligent) cannot see how the downside of losing a DH for a few innings a season (less than half a percentage point of innings played) is outweighed by the benefit of getting Josmil Pinto MLB at-bats on a regular basis.

*bangs face on desk until unconscious*

#21 Linus

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

Here's the problem with the start 1/3rd and DH the rest in the big leagues theory: he needs the most work behind the plate and the only way he gets better at that aspect is to PLAY. Talking about it with Suzuki, Steinbach, Mauer has very little value - that's what coaches are for. I'm generally OK with Gardy but the thing that drives me nuts is that, once he gets an idea in his head, whether it is about a player or a theory, he will not change his mind. If it is left up to Gardy, Pinto will stay in the big leagues to help win an extra game or two while playing twice a week.

#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:58 AM

Here's the problem with the start 1/3rd and DH the rest in the big leagues theory: he needs the most work behind the plate and the only way he gets better at that aspect is to PLAY. Talking about it with Suzuki, Steinbach, Mauer has very little value - that's what coaches are for.


The thing is that he should still get roughly 50 games behind the plate as the backup catcher... At that point, it becomes a question of value per inning. What's better for his development? 50 games with Mauer, Suzuki, and Steinbach watching or 90 games in Rochester?

Personally, I think he'd learn more in 50 Minnesota games than 90 MiLB games, doubly so if you factor in that he would be facing top-tier pitching and learning how to hit instead of just teeing off on bad AAA pitching.

#23 Linus

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:12 AM

The thing is that he should still get roughly 50 games behind the plate as the backup catcher... At that point, it becomes a question of value per inning. What's better for his development? 50 games with Mauer, Suzuki, and Steinbach watching or 90 games in Rochester?

Personally, I think he'd learn more in 50 Minnesota games than 90 MiLB games, doubly so if you factor in that he would be facing top-tier pitching and learning how to hit instead of just teeing off on bad AAA pitching.


90 games in Rochester (actually it would probably be 100). Part of our difference in opinion is that I don't perceive the influence of Mauer et al to be that valuable. The most valuable learning experience a player can have is simply the opportunity to play alot, everyday, all the time. If he is absolutely raking in AAA, bring him up in July and start him in as many games as he can handle and let Suzuki sit. He simply has to play and where is less important that being behind the plate everyday (or as many days as he can handle).

#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:16 AM

It's a fair opinion, I just happen to disagree. If played at DH twice a week and twice more at catcher, I think Pinto has more opportunity to grow as a MLB player.

#25 savvyspy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

The dangers of small sample sizes:

Suzuki, Hicks, Plouffe, and Kubel have looked very solid at the plate

Mauer, Dozier, Willingham, and Florimon have looked horrendous.

I don't think anyone would believe that trend will continue much longer. Some of the guys off to a hot start will revert back to their normal production and a few of the slow start guys will pick it up.

Its interesting to see who comes out of the gate hot and who struggles but it really doesn't mean much until late June or July. We should know what's what after these guys get about 100-125 ABs.

#26 Chance

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:21 AM

I am fine with Pintos role being the backup catcher and pinch hitter. Gardy can't be afraid to pinch hit Pinto as often as possible. If Zuke gets injuried Mauer can squat for 1-3 innings. And that may never happen. How often a season is an emergency catcher used? Barely ever.

#27 gunnarthor

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

Maybe we should wait more than 2 games before we complain about Pinto's playing time?

Edited by gunnarthor, 03 April 2014 - 08:38 AM.


#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

This. Send him to Rochester and let him play every day. Its pretty clear already that Gardy won't let him pinch hit or DH so put him somewhere he can be the regular catcher. Its crazy to have a 25 year old valuable prospect riding the pine.


I think we're too well-trained by the Twins brass/mouthpieces into believing that "playing every day" is always superior to being on a big league roster.

I don't think that's the issue here, Pinto can and should be learning just as much now as he could in AAA. The biggest issue with this 2/3 split right now (which I'm 100% behind for the beginning of the year) is Gardy's inexplicable stance about losing the DH and not pinch hitting him more often.

#29 Linus

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:42 AM

I think we're too well-trained by the Twins brass/mouthpieces into believing that "playing every day" is always superior to being on a big league roster.

I don't think that's the issue here, Pinto can and should be learning just as much now as he could in AAA. The biggest issue with this 2/3 split right now (which I'm 100% behind for the beginning of the year) is Gardy's inexplicable stance about losing the DH and not pinch hitting him more often.


I'm not aware that the Twins brass espouses the playing every day theory and that is not why I believe in it. I believe in it because I've seen this aspect in all sports. Gardy isn't going to pinch hit him or DH him. We don't like this but that is the reality. Given that, it just makes more sense for Pinto's development to play more and that is in AAA. Hell, I'd be fine starting Pinto with the big club and sitting Suzuki, but that's not going to happen either.

#30 DJL44

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:46 AM

I'm sure if you ask Pinto he'd rather be in the big leagues. He'll get playing time. He can improve his defense during practice. If he plays well he'll earn more playing time. If they wanted him working on his defense as much as possible it makes you question why he was a minor league DH 50 games each of the past two years.

Colabello is going to pinch hit much more often than Pinto. With 12 pitchers they don't have a really deep bench.