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Article: Three Twins Complaints I'm Sick and Tired Of

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#1 Twins Fan From Afar

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:00 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...ck-and-Tired-Of
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#2 mike wants wins

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:10 PM

I love the irony of the complaining about complainers....the one I don't agree with is the Mauer contract....putting more than 20% of your money in one player has an effect on what you can do with your roster, and his value is tied up in that. But, hopefully we can all learn not to bring it up every thread, you are correct on that.

#3 Montecore

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

I agree with this futile litany. A productive Mauer and Morneau is important to the club, so the complaints are just inane. My main complaint will never change - Gardenhire and Ryan, but especially Gardenhire. He's stupid and incompetent and his imbecilic standards of what makes a good player have chased away Papi, Garza, and Hardy. I don't know how he got the job in the first place. Looking gritty is not a qualification to manage. It sucks that they're losing, but, if it helps kick his dumb ass out the door - I'm all for it.

#4 nick5253

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

I am also sick of the following 2 sentiments: 1. The Twins are a 'Small Market' team. They are in the top half in payroll even after slashing 15 million and the Twin Cities is NOT in the bottom 5-10 metro areas. 2. The Twins play the 'Twins Way'. This also no longer the case. I would say since the Delmon era, defense is no longer stressed and the hitters no longer do the little things to move runners. The only 'Twins Way' that remains is the pitchers pitching to contact which is part of the reason the rotation has been so bad for over a year. I think both are thought of more on a national stage than locally since locals are more in tune with the Twins, but hearing them on national broadcasts irritates me to no end.

#5 Rosterman

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

Something seems out-of-alignment in not only line-up but overall team construction.

#6 Paul

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:55 PM

I agree with your 3. But my top 3 are: 1. The complaining of the Twins "pitch-to-contact" philosophy by those who don't know what it means. (This is propagated by some local writers who also don't know what it means.) 2. The complaining of the Twins organization not holding people "accountable". I'm not sure where to begin on this one. Every successful enterprise holds people accountable to the standards they set. But they rarely hold public flagellations. I think that's what the complainers want. 3. The complaints about Gardehire and the Twins only wanting good men that fit in the clubhouse.

#7 wblmayo24

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:14 PM

I love the irony of the complaining about complainers....the one I don't agree with is the Mauer contract....putting more than 20% of your money in one player has an effect on what you can do with your roster, and his value is tied up in that. But, hopefully we can all learn not to bring it up every thread, you are correct on that.


And you're the guy who is b****ing and complaining when he would've left the Twins to play with a team that would pay him what he is worth. He's the best hitting catcher that will ever play the game. The contract is signed and there's no changing it. He deserves the money, so cheer for him. Even better: stop complaining about him and complain about the terrible pitching staff thus far. #gt

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:19 PM

wblmay024, you have no idea who I am, or what I might think about that. You are correct, there is no changing the contract at this point. But it is silly to pretend (as many do) that the contract he signed has no effect on the crappy pitching choices they have (or any other hole on the roster). He makes 25% of the entire payroll. That is not his fault, but it gives Ryan no room for mistakes elsewhere on the roster, none. That's something the Twins and their fans have to live with, and ignoring it won't do them any good.
Lighten up Francis....

#9 ssp833

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

I wanted to make sure that the pitch to contact theory was added, but a couple have already beat me to it. And I have no issues with Mauer and Morneau's contracts or toughness. I want to have some stars to cheer for and they need to be paid for. I also have no issue with public financing of the stadium. Just like state parks and well stocked lakes - if we want nice things we need to pay for them. I guess I'm not much of a complainer. Except for the lack of hard throwing strikeout pitchers.

#10 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:24 PM

Great post. I'm right with you an all of them. 1) I get a good chuckle over the amount of whining about this. It's exactly the type of thing Twins fans spent years complaining about the team NOT making. With Santana, Hunter, etc., there was constant griping about ownership being too cheap to pay to keep top end talent. Then they open the vaults for Mauer, and it's a constant bitchfest about how he makes too much. Welcome to the realities of big league baseball. You either cough up big bucks for your good players, or someone else will when they hit free agency. 2) Complaning about this was relevant and appropriate several years ago when the issue was still under debate. But it was settled and the stadium was built. You didn't get your way. It happens. Grow up and get over it. 3) Anyone who says this is an uninformed wannabe tough guy.

#11 savvyspy

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:25 PM

It doesn't matter how many times I read it, I still don't buy Mauer's contract for the player he's become since signing it. I can't think of a position player that offers so little run producing stats at such a high number. There isn't one justification that says tying up 20%+ of your payroll for a guy that won't drive in 80 runs is a sound investment unless he's an elite defender (he's not) or a team leader (definitely not). I'm not saying booing him is right or wrong but that is an ugly contract for what the team is getting.

#12 TwinsFanLV

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:53 PM

Why were the original 5 or so comments ommitted when the article was moved to the Front Page? Seth?

#13 whydidnt

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

As a sometimes complainer, let me add my thoughts... 1) Mauer's contract, don't think I have ever really complained about it. The Twins were in a no-win situation at the time they signed him. He was coming off an MVP season, was a hometown guy, and they were a year away from opening a publicly financed stadium. They could either bite the bullet and over pay, or risk losing him and dealing with tremendous public backlash. I also think he's more valuable than people give credit for. There just aren't that many Catchers in the league that provide offensive value. I do think the Twins ownership could have been wiser, and treated the contract as a special deal and excluded it from the team budget, since so much of it's value was based upon "goodwill". We've seen other teams do this from time to time for special players, and let's be honest, it's not like the Pohlad's can't afford a little goodwill, in more ways than one. 2) I do complain about the publicly financed stadium, but only in the realm that the owner's indicated that without it we couldn't compete financially, and now it seems that with it, we still can't compete financially. Even though Twins fans have been good customers and bought tickets, paid for concessions etc. I think it was a cold slap in the face for the team to cut payroll by almost 15% this year. 3) I really haven't seen much complaining about Mourneau's toughness. I've seen plenty about Mauer, but most just want Mourneau to get better and hopefully contribute again. I think you're stretching for a #3 on this one.

#14 Seth Stohs

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

Why were the original 5 or so comments ommitted when the article was moved to the Front Page? Seth?


Because were don't have a way of bringing them over. The "Blog" Comments and the "Article" comments are in separate places and can't be consolidated. I apologize.

#15 Twins Fan From Afar

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:38 PM

As a sometimes complainer, let me add my thoughts...
1) Mauer's contract, don't think I have ever really complained about it. The Twins were in a no-win situation at the time they signed him. He was coming off an MVP season, was a hometown guy, and they were a year away from opening a publicly financed stadium. They could either bite the bullet and over pay, or risk losing him and dealing with tremendous public backlash. I also think he's more valuable than people give credit for. There just aren't that many Catchers in the league that provide offensive value. I do think the Twins ownership could have been wiser, and treated the contract as a special deal and excluded it from the team budget, since so much of it's value was based upon "goodwill". We've seen other teams do this from time to time for special players, and let's be honest, it's not like the Pohlad's can't afford a little goodwill, in more ways than one.
2) I do complain about the publicly financed stadium, but only in the realm that the owner's indicated that without it we couldn't compete financially, and now it seems that with it, we still can't compete financially. Even though Twins fans have been good customers and bought tickets, paid for concessions etc. I think it was a cold slap in the face for the team to cut payroll by almost 15% this year.
3) I really haven't seen much complaining about Mourneau's toughness. I've seen plenty about Mauer, but most just want Mourneau to get better and hopefully contribute again. I think you're stretching for a #3 on this one.


Thanks for the comment.
As to item #3, I was speaking more about the 2009, 2010 and 2011 Star Tribune message boards than anything that has been posted here.
For friends, fans or family of Morneau, the Star Trib was not a kind website.
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#16 TwinsFanLV

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:00 PM

Because were don't have a way of bringing them over. The "Blog" Comments and the "Article" comments are in separate places and can't be consolidated. I apologize.

Seth: No need to apologize. I'm pretty new to Twins Daily and still figuring out how things work. Thanks!

#17 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:00 PM

1. To hell with the naysayers. Mauer wins another 1-3 Batting Titles. 2. Stadium - Many might be angry about it and the tax repercussions. Me - so happy MLB baseball will be alive and well in the Twin Cities in my lifetime. I am Willing to pay the tax. 3. Beaten down and buried. Here's hoping to Morneau's future health. You are close to it. Prove the suckas wrong!

#18 CDog

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:23 AM

unless he's a team leader (definitely not). .


How much time have you spent in the clubhouse or around the team or around Mauer or other players on the team?

#19 CDog

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:27 AM

2) I do complain about the publicly financed stadium, but only in the realm that the owner's indicated that without it we couldn't compete financially, and now it seems that with it, we still can't compete financially. Even though Twins fans have been good customers and bought tickets, paid for concessions etc. I think it was a cold slap in the face for the team to cut payroll by almost 15% this year.


Compare relative payroll before Target Field to after. How are they not competing financially? Just because the team isn't good right now, doesn't mean it's because they're not spending enough. And as for the drop in payroll, I don't think anyone but a few people in the world have a really clear idea of all that goes into the team's financials, but isn't it possible that they were 15% over-budget last year and simply fell back to where they were shooting for?

#20 CDog

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

It's a slightly different topic, but I've been mulling a blog post about all the flat-out falsehoods that seep into conversations over and over again regarding the Twins. Not stuff that is opinion-based where people could reasonably have different views, but the concrete facts that people get incorrect so often. This thread seems too similar to that, so I'll have to wait a while just to seem more original. So on that front, this blog post has been a huge success, simply by stopping me from writing an annoying one of my own...for now!

#21 TCBurgerGuy

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:25 AM

Great article, Andy. But isn't complaining what Minnesotans do best? The weather, politics, baseball. It makes us feel like we have some sort of control, and it just gets exponentially worse when things get worse. Good points though on topics that fans just need to let go. Does it really accomplish anything when you complain about it? I equate it to being on any road in Minnesota - there are going to be horrible drivers and there's nothing you can do about it. Just move on with your day and don't be one of them. I also couldn't agree any more with one_eyed_jack. Your point about losing and retaining players with large contracts is spot-on. Can you imagine the message boards had Mauer signed elsewhere?

#22 Twins Fan From Afar

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:23 AM

Great article, Andy. But isn't complaining what Minnesotans do best? The weather, politics, baseball. It makes us feel like we have some sort of control, and it just gets exponentially worse when things get worse. Good points though on topics that fans just need to let go. Does it really accomplish anything when you complain about it? I equate it to being on any road in Minnesota - there are going to be horrible drivers and there's nothing you can do about it. Just move on with your day and don't be one of them.

I also couldn't agree any more with one_eyed_jack. Your point about losing and retaining players with large contracts is spot-on. Can you imagine the message boards had Mauer signed elsewhere?


We do love our complaining!
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#23 El Guapo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

I'm going to switch it up a little. My top 3 Twins issues I'm sick of are 1. Fans reaching for any little reason to stick up fo r this front office and oraganization as a whole and letting them coast through season after season shooting for mediocrity and being thankful when they actually achieve it and NOT HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE! Jim Pohlad, Terry Ryan, ron Gardenhire, Rick Anderson, Joe Vavra, Francisco Liriano, Joe Mauer, Matt Capps, Nick Blackburn, Alexi Casilla, Trevor Plouffe, are the main people who I believe have way too long of leashes in their own way and get to many excuses made or people constantly reaching to defend them instead of HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE for their failures. 2. People complaining about Mauer's contract. The same people whining about his money now are the same people that were threatening to lynch Bill Smith and burn down Target Field if he let Mauer leave. I never thought Mauer was worth what he got but we actually got him at a discounted rate at the time so quit blaming Bill Smith for that one at least and accept that mauer will be eating up $23 million a year for awhile and work around it. 3. I'm sick of t Ahe PITCH TO CONTACT theory. Yes, I understand it isn't supposed to mean throw a meatball over the middle of the plate and let your opponent smash it over the fence but with the staff we usually go in with, that what happens. If your whole pitching premise is going to be to pitch to contact, you'd better start doing a better job scouting pitchers with pinpoint control who can work the corners and change speeds effectively. Right now, besides Pavano, who on our staff can do that consistently? Marquis is in and out, Blackburn doesn't walk a ton of people but doesn't consistently locate pitches in good spots either, Hendricks might be ok but needs another year in the minors, I'll give Baker a free pas since I believe he is the best starter oin this rotation but since he's out for the year and injury prone it doesn't really matter. As for Liriano, he can't even throw a meatball half the time because he usually has no idea where his pitches are going.

#24 Mchans24

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:01 PM

The publicly funded stadiums are a catch 22, I love them but really do believe it is just another example of corporate welfare. These owners can afford to build these stadiums themselves and hold cities hostage to get them done. They really don't I prove the economy in the long run either. Many studies actually show that they hurt as people tend to stay away from these areas on game day if they aren't interested themselves. Twins had no choice with Mauer, it isn't smart to have him lock up that big of a chunk of payroll but what else could they have done. Can't wait for 2014 when Sano gets called up at 20!!!