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Yangervis Solarte makes the Yankees

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#41 jokin

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:06 PM

Or, maybe when he said he went there and they told him to stop moving the runner over, and to HIT the ball, he was truthful. After all, Gomez just said the same thing on Fangraphs.

On topic, congrats to Solarte!


It's striking how people not only ignore the prima facie statistical evidence and facts around the case, but also first-source evidence, from Gomez, Ortiz, and from Terry Ryan himself admitting it was his worst decision ever.

Meanwhile, Solarte continues to cement his minor folk hero status as he reaches twice, scores a run and drives one in, in Yankees home opener victory today.

Edited by jokin, 07 April 2014 - 07:22 PM.


#42 jokin

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:47 PM

This really gets old. Lecroy put up similar to numbers to Ortiz (as a Twin) after Ortiz left. Right or wrong (in hindsight it was definitely wrong) the Twins made a decision to only keep one tubby DH. If Ortiz had continued to put up .800 OPS's as a platoon DH then very few people would be bellyaching today. But Ortiz became a HOF caliber player instead so it's just another opportunity to call the front office idiots.


Kind of overly-dismissive of (literally) a franchise-changing, horrible decision- one that even Terry Ryan willingly admits was his worst.

#43 Thrylos

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

I cannot imagine any universe in which there is any way to defend Ryan's decision to keep LeCroy over Ortiz.
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#44 kab21

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:54 PM

Kind of overly-dismissive of (literally) a franchise-changing, horrible decision- one that even Terry Ryan willingly admits was his worst.


I agree that in hindsight it was an awful decision but that's the key - hindsight. People look at Ortiz's MiLB stats and say that he could flat out hit but ignore Lecroy's MiLB stats that said he could flat out hit and then ignore that he basically replaced Ortiz's Twins production when Ortiz was cut. The Twins clearly made the wrong choice but there wasn't room on the roster for two tubby DH's.

#45 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

I agree that in hindsight it was an awful decision but that's the key - hindsight. People look at Ortiz's MiLB stats and say that he could flat out hit but ignore Lecroy's MiLB stats that said he could flat out hit and then ignore that he basically replaced Ortiz's Twins production when Ortiz was cut. The Twins clearly made the wrong choice but there wasn't room on the roster for two tubby DH's.


Lecroy had roughly 200 fewer PAs over the next three years after Ortiz left than Ortiz had in the three years prior to leaving, at a slightly lower OPS, so he didn't actually replace Ortiz's production. And that ignores what Ortiz did in the three years immediately after he left...1600 PAs at around a .980 OPS.

And I disagree it's hindsight to say the Twins shouldn't get a pass on being spectacularly wrong on which tubby DH they decided to keep, even if one accepts the idea they absolutely had to get rid of one of them, which I don't think is a given.

#46 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:34 PM

My recollection, as reliable as those things can be at ten years' distance, was that Lecroy was never more than anything but an oversized novelty who couldn't outrun the umpire to first, while there was still hope for Ortiz, who was coming off a good season and entering his prime but still not developing into the slugger as quickly as he might have been. I was not around for all of those seasons so somebody can correct me.

Morneau was becoming major league ready, so we felt we could part with Ortiz. Yet somehow Lecroy was untouchable. Was there a conference in the clubhouse about whether to keep Lecroy and let Ortiz go? Apparently so. I like Ryan and would like him to quit falling on his sword for this organization and for someone else to step up and raise their hand.

#47 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:30 AM

N/M

Edited by jokin, 08 April 2014 - 01:33 AM.


#48 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:33 AM

Lecroy had roughly 200 fewer PAs over the next three years after Ortiz left than Ortiz had in the three years prior to leaving, at a slightly lower OPS, so he didn't actually replace Ortiz's production. And that ignores what Ortiz did in the three years immediately after he left...1600 PAs at around a .980 OPS.

And I disagree it's hindsight to say the Twins shouldn't get a pass on being spectacularly wrong on which tubby DH they decided to keep, even if one accepts the idea they absolutely had to get rid of one of them, which I don't think is a given.


Right, and I would wager that the body fat % on Ortiz was far less than LeCroy's. Spectacular failure on mis-reading the potential of a guy on the upswing of his career versus a guy who peaked the year Ortiz was released. I still tend to think that the Twins chose a "good ol' boy" in Lecroy over Ortiz, who they had concluded they hadn't been able to reach with what they wanted from him- and was no longer worth the bother in trying to continue doing so at a greater cost.

#49 Shane Wahl

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:51 PM

Dug up my old blog post from last year where I wrote about SOLARTE, not Ortiz or LeCroy!:

"In the 2011 season, the New Britain Rock Cats featured a dynamic lineup for the second half of the season which consisted primarily of Brian Dozier (SS), Chris Herrmann (C/LF), Chris Parmelee (1B/RF), Joe Benson (CF), and Yangervis Solarte (2B/LF). None of these five would see any AAA time in 2011 and only Parmelee and Benson saw September action with the Twins. After the season, the Twins committed to Brian Dozier going forward and Yangervis Solarte left as a minor league free agent, signing with the Texas organization.

Here I would like to compare Dozier with Solarte. First they are physically similar, being 5'11" and about 190 pounds. They are both now in their age 26 seasons, with Solarte actually being almost two months younger than Dozier. Solarte is a switch-hitter who has played most of his time at second base but has seen some time in left field, at third base, and at shortstop.

In that 2011 season, Solarte found his groove and posted a .329/.367/.466 (.834) line with 36 doubles, 3 triples, and 7 homers. He didn't walk (24) or strike out (38) much. Dozier was stellar for New Britain, posting a .318/.384/.502 (.885) line in about 2/3 of the season.

Since that time, Dozier has found himself with the Twins for what amounts to close to a full season now with a demotion to AAA in 2012 where he struggled. Dozier is the primary second baseman for the Twins, almost by default, though his defense there has been great.

Solarte has been in AAA for the Rangers organization ever since and is doing well this year in particular. His slash is .296/.337/.440 (.777) and has 12 doubles and 8 homers. He has been a super utility player, playing the three skilled infield positions and left field while posting decent numbers at all of those positions defensively.

While Dozier has been handed a job, Solarte has the great misfortune of being in an organization with Elvis Andrus, Jurickson Profar, Ian Kinsler, Adrian Beltre, and Mike Olt. Solarte has performed well in AAA and looks projectable for the majors, but is extremely blocked.

Meanwhile, Bran Dozier's career is hanging almost exclusively on a combination of his defensive abilities at second base and the fact that there is no one better, somehow, to take his position.

If only the Twins had sweetened the deal for Solarte either by showing commitment to him with either a AAA promotion in 2011 or a September call-up, or by offering more money to stick around and re-sign with the organization. It looks like it would have served both Solarte and the Twins well."

#50 Deduno Abides

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 02:56 PM

IMO, it's impossible NOT to rip on the Twins over David Ortiz. They RELEASED him. Over a couple million bucks. To keep Matthew Lecroy. Nobody could predict he'd turn into a HOFer, but it didn't take a baseball genius to see he could hit, and would be worth the relatively small price it would have taken to keep him around, at least for a few more years, in a league with a DH.


Of course the Twins should be ripped for letting Ortiz go FOR NOTHING. Saying the Twins shouldn't be ripped for misreading a talent like Ortiz or not being able to work with him in the dugout is like saying the management of the 1965-66 Cincinnati Reds shouldn't be ripped for trading Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas, because, after all, Robinson could be grumpy, the Reds had three other good outfielders and they needed another starter.

As far as Ortiz's fit here, it is important for talent to get with the program, but it's also important for management to be flexible enough to realize when the program should be modified to fit the talent. Nobody believes Grady Little was a superstar manager, but even he understood that.

To rationalize that Lecroy was, at that time, a performance equivalent to Ortiz is to ignore the statistics of their last year as teammates before the Twins RELEASED Ortiz. In 466 PAs, Ortiz had 20 HR's and 272/339/500. In 196 PAs, Lecroy had 7 HR's and 260/306/448. Note that Ortiz was still recovering from a broken wrist that year, so improvement could be expected. (Of course, the Twins later considered J.J. Hardy's performance while recovering from his own broken wrist to be his expected level of performance, instead of a level that would be improved upon after fully healing, so maybe not everybody thinks hitting improves after full recovery from a broken wrist.) It's hard to see the equivalence between the players.

At least when the Red Sox got rid of their "tubby" outfielder a hundred years ago, they got some money for him.
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#51 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 04:17 PM

Dug up my old blog post from last year where I wrote about SOLARTE, not Ortiz or LeCroy!:

"In the 2011 season, the New Britain Rock Cats featured a dynamic lineup for the second half of the season which consisted primarily of Brian Dozier (SS), Chris Herrmann (C/LF), Chris Parmelee (1B/RF), Joe Benson (CF), and Yangervis Solarte (2B/LF). None of these five would see any AAA time in 2011 and only Parmelee and Benson saw September action with the Twins. After the season, the Twins committed to Brian Dozier going forward and Yangervis Solarte left as a minor league free agent, signing with the Texas organization.

Here I would like to compare Dozier with Solarte. First they are physically similar, being 5'11" and about 190 pounds. They are both now in their age 26 seasons, with Solarte actually being almost two months younger than Dozier. Solarte is a switch-hitter who has played most of his time at second base but has seen some time in left field, at third base, and at shortstop.

In that 2011 season, Solarte found his groove and posted a .329/.367/.466 (.834) line with 36 doubles, 3 triples, and 7 homers. He didn't walk (24) or strike out (38) much. Dozier was stellar for New Britain, posting a .318/.384/.502 (.885) line in about 2/3 of the season.

Since that time, Dozier has found himself with the Twins for what amounts to close to a full season now with a demotion to AAA in 2012 where he struggled. Dozier is the primary second baseman for the Twins, almost by default, though his defense there has been great.

Solarte has been in AAA for the Rangers organization ever since and is doing well this year in particular. His slash is .296/.337/.440 (.777) and has 12 doubles and 8 homers. He has been a super utility player, playing the three skilled infield positions and left field while posting decent numbers at all of those positions defensively.

While Dozier has been handed a job, Solarte has the great misfortune of being in an organization with Elvis Andrus, Jurickson Profar, Ian Kinsler, Adrian Beltre, and Mike Olt. Solarte has performed well in AAA and looks projectable for the majors, but is extremely blocked.

Meanwhile, Bran Dozier's career is hanging almost exclusively on a combination of his defensive abilities at second base and the fact that there is no one better, somehow, to take his position.

If only the Twins had sweetened the deal for Solarte either by showing commitment to him with either a AAA promotion in 2011 or a September call-up, or by offering more money to stick around and re-sign with the organization. It looks like it would have served both Solarte and the Twins well."


Wow Shane. That's some pretty contemporaneously damning evidence and juxtaposes 2 organizations' philosophical approach for filler depth- the Twins finding him entirely outright expendable, and the Rangers, even with Profar at the same developmental level, promoted Solarte to AAA and hung onto him for 2 years, just in case.

Is it possible that there was another issue? ie, do you recall who all was added to the 40-man around and after the time of his release in December of 2011? They didn't need to add Dozier until he made the team officially.

Edited by jokin, 08 April 2014 - 04:30 PM.


#52 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 04:44 PM

The Orioles drub the Yankees today (Delmon had 3 hits, including a HR batting in the 2 hole?), but no matter, Solarte goes 2-4, including his ML-leading 6th double. Solarte again was 1-1 w/RISP, while the rest of the team combined was 0-9 w/RISP. Besides his own current BA of .456 and Ellsbury's BA of .418, all but one of the rest of the team is struggling around or below the Mendoza line.

#53 Shane Wahl

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:06 PM

Wow Shane. That's some pretty contemporaneously damning evidence and juxtaposes 2 organizations' philosophical approach for filler depth- the Twins finding him entirely outright expendable, and the Rangers, even with Profar at the same developmental level, promoted Solarte to AAA and hung onto him for 2 years, just in case.

Is it possible that there was another issue? ie, do you recall who all was added to the 40-man around and after the time of his release in December of 2011? They didn't need to add Dozier until he made the team officially.


This was obviously after Parmelee, Benson, and Hendriks. I believe the added players were Arcia, Carlos Gutierrez (!), and Tyler Robertson (!). I don't know what number that brought the 40-man up to at that point. Maybe 38.

#54 jokin

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:39 PM

This was obviously after Parmelee, Benson, and Hendriks. I believe the added players were Arcia, Carlos Gutierrez (!), and Tyler Robertson (!). I don't know what number that brought the 40-man up to at that point. Maybe 38.


Double ouch!! An already-imploding 1st Round draft bust and a AAAA "Legacy" LOOGY.

Edited by jokin, 08 April 2014 - 06:29 PM.


#55 jokin

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:14 PM

Did anyone else watch the longest running Sunday TV drama in Cable TV history? I'm referring of course, to ESPN Sunday Night Baseball, AKA, the Yankees vs. the Red Sox. Both teams had multiple DLers and DTDers, with NY starters, Jeter and Roberts unable to play. As the game progressed, the Yanks only backup Catcher, Franklin Cervelli, who had started at 1B (Gardy would have a field day on Girardi for this move, but that's for another post at a later date), pulled his hamstring and had to be removed from the game. Meanwhile, starting Catcher, Brian McCann, took a foul tip to his throwing hand. The Yanks were down to no position players left to put in, and all eyes were focused on the prospect of CC Sabathia having to possibly enter the game in the field. Everything was soon compounded when Yangervis Solarte came up limp with a hamstring pull trying to run out a grounder at 1st. NY Newday led with this account http://www.newsday.c...kees-1.7702254:


The Yankees have liked everything they have learned about Yangervis Solarte since he showed up in spring training as a non-roster invitee. On Sunday night, they got to see his toughness in a time of crisis.
The Yankees were down three injured players and had no healthy bench players when Solarte was tagged in the groin area by Mike Napoli in the sixth inning on a bang-bang play at first base.
Solarte went down in pain. At first it appeared he had perhaps turned an ankle. But when the true nature of his injury was revealed, the rookie got sympathy from his teammates.

He also got instructions to stay in the game if at all possible. The Yankees already had Carlos Beltran playing first base for the first time in his long career and couldn't afford to lose another body.
In the top of the seventh, Solarte walked out to second base. Slowly. And he finished the Yankees' 3-2 victory over the Red Sox.
For Solarte, it was another key - if painful - moment in his emergence from unnoticed free-agent minor league signing to everyday player in the absence of the injured Mark Teixeira.


Solarte also went 2-4 in the game and played flawlessly in the field. Whatever it was that caused the Twins to let Solarte walk away, 13 teams negotiated to sign him in the offseason, now he's proving that he'll do whatever it takes to stay for good. On the Yankees of all teams.

Edited by jokin, 15 April 2014 - 05:28 AM.


#56 jokin

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:39 PM

It's gotten to the point where you can't make up what's happening with the Yankees this month. Sporting an infield that featured the likes of Yangervis Solarte, Scott Sizemore (first Yankee start), Brian Roberts and then later, Dean Anna and Kelly Johnson (along with Derek Jeter), the Yankees continued their remarkable and unlikely run to the top of the AL East in April. Tonight, Solarte started a picture perfect 5-4-3 triple play in the 2nd inning in the Yankees convincing 10-2 win over Tampa Bay Rays Ace, David Price. Here's the video:

http://hardballtalk....ainst-the-rays/

Oh yeah, Solarte has been moving up in the batting order lately, showing management's confidence that what's happening with Solarte may not be so fluky. He's batting 6th now, with veterans Roberts and Ichiro batting in the 8th and 9th spots. Solarte proved Girardi's hunch was correct, as he fell one triple short of the cycle, going 3-5 tonight. He is now batting .373 with a .1017 OPS.

Edited by jokin, 18 April 2014 - 02:18 AM.


#57 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:09 PM

...the Yankees continued their remarkable and unlikely run to the top of the AL East in April…



um, ok jokin, whatever you say ;)

Seriously though, no question Solarte has been a genuine spark plug for those guys. His April stats are nice and the Twins have some guys with nice April stats too. I love the updates. Random fact: Jeter once had an 0-32 streak in April and still pretty much finished the year at his career averages.

#58 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:56 AM

He continues to impress. Some guys just need to get a chance.

#59 big dog

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 06:25 PM

Solarte optioned to AAA by the Yankees. Maybe he'll get another chance later in the season.

#60 old nurse

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:09 AM

Solarte optioned to AAA by the Yankees. Maybe he'll get another chance later in the season.


a 3 for 49 slump will get you demoted.