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Yangervis Solarte makes the Yankees

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#21 old nurse

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:28 AM

Is this going to be like the thread for the guy now playing for the Jacksonville Sun(AA)?

#22 Jerr

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:02 PM

SHOULDA
WOULDA
COULDA

You guys are masochists.


I regret Ortiz, buit that's about it.


Cant regret Ortiz, as he never woulda, shoulda, coulda, if he stayed here. All teams passed on him, but he never woulda become Big Papi here.

#23 jokin

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:07 PM

Is this going to be like the thread for the guy now playing for the Jacksonville Sun(AA)?


We can talk about him when he makes the Yankees, too.

Or maybe Shane might want to do daily updates for Jacksonville's own "Joltin" Joe in a new thread? :P

BTW, in a continuation of one of the most unlikely stories of the year, Solarte is quickly gaining a cult following in New York***, as he started his 3rd straight game for the Yanks today at 3rd, reaching base 3 times in 4 ABs while going 2 for 3. The manager seems sheepishly gratified that he is actually being asked questions about a player even he hadn't heard of until Spring Training and that his team is starting 2 career minor leaguers in the same infield alongside future of Hall of Famer Derek Jeter and all of the high priced off season acquisitions.


***http://www.forums.ml...KEES&tid=533194

Well, Solarte earned another start or ten

"No doubt he's as hot as a pistol right now, will it continue, no one knows, but I'm betting he's going to get a chance to show us... I just love the attitude he has, nothing bothers him, Cool as the other side of your pillow..."


#24 jokin

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:53 PM

The only unfortunate thing about losing Yangervis Alfredo Solarte is that his name is cool. These regrets about losing him will seem as silly as last year's 'Eduardo Escobar should be starting at SS because he's a couple years younger and has more upside' arguments.


Yeah, just as silly, because Eddie had a AA year at the plate like Solarte had...oh wait...he didn't. But as I said, I'm thinking Solarte starting for the Yankees in 2014 says more about them than about the Twins not putting him on the 40 man roster in 2012

But yeah, we lost Yangervis Solarte and have to move on from that awesome name uniqueness, but the future is bright, as we still have Amaurys Minier and Engelb Vielma

#25 jokin

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:20 PM

..... he never woulda become Big Papi here.


Big Papi would be the first to agree with you on your premise.

#26 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:09 PM

Hell, guess who else plays for Jacksonville . . . Nick Wittgren!

Be careful what you wish for, Jokin. Be careful what you wish for.

#27 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

Cant regret Ortiz, as he never woulda, shoulda, coulda, if he stayed here. All teams passed on him, but he never woulda become Big Papi here.

I've heard this assertion before. Other than the nickname, why wouldn't he have been a great hitter here?

#28 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:32 PM

I've heard this assertion before. Other than the nickname, why wouldn't he have been a great hitter here?


That little RF in Fenway is nice like that. Still doesn't mean he couldn't have been pretty great, I suppose. Potentially some managerial issues as well?

#29 jokin

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:57 PM

[quote name='Shane Wahl']That little RF in Fenway is nice like that. Still doesn't mean he couldn't have been pretty great, I suppose. Potentially some managerial issues as well?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='USAFChief']I've heard this assertion before. Other than the nickname, why wouldn't he have been a great hitter here?[/QUOTE]

Through 6 years up and down with the Twins and through 2 managers- to paraphrase an iconic movie- "what we (apparently) had there was failure to communitcate". The Twins apparently never felt that Ortiz was able to "get the basics down"*** before they were willing to consider him a "solid major leaguer", even as he was having a breakout year in 2002. Furthermore, they compounded their mis-assessment of Ortiz, clearly on the way up in his career, but also LeCroix (despite being the same age as Ortiz) who had done little to that point for the Twins, peaked in 2003 and quickly was on a career-ending crash-and-burn spiral.


[QUOTE]Ortiz loved Minnesota when he was here. And he was the most popular guy in the clubhouse. The fans loved him, too, but Ortiz didn't like what the Twins tried to do to him as a hitter. Or at least what he thought the Twins were trying to do to him as a hitter.

Years ago, I talked with him...about the subject. He was on his way to winning a World Series with Boston at the time, but a dark cloud came over him as soon as the topic arose.

"I always hit a lot of home runs when I was coming up," he said. "I'd take a big swing and my first manager would be screaming at me: 'Hey, hey, hey, what are you doing?'
Are you kidding me? You want me to swing like a little girl? I'll swing like a little girl."


Ortiz's first manager was Tom Kelly, who has always explained that the Twins were trying to develop Ortiz into a solid major league hitter first.

***The implication was that Ortiz would be able to swing a bit more freely after he got the basics down. But Ortiz, a big guy, felt restricted.


"My first exhibition game here (with Boston), I came up with a runner on second and no outs," Ortiz said during that same interview. "I'm thinking, 'I've got to get the runner over.' "
Ortiz took a make-contact swing. When he returned to the Red Sox dugout, then-manager Grady Little was waiting for him.
"Grady said, 'This is not the Twins. You've got to bring that guy in,' '' Ortiz said. "OK, looks like I got a green light."

[/QUOTE]
http://www.twincitie...ars-david-ortiz

Communication is a 2 way street, I think Ortiz had likely reached an impasse in this regard with the field manager- he was going to be a Dominican "Cool Hand Luke"- come hell or high water, making Terry Ryan's decision to release him a fairly easy one.

#30 kab21

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:10 PM

Yeah, just as silly, because Eddie had a AA year at the plate like Solarte had...oh wait...he didn't. But as I said, I'm thinking Solarte starting for the Yankees in 2014 says more about them than about the Twins not putting him on the 40 man roster in 2012

But yeah, we lost Yangervis Solarte and have to move on from that awesome name uniqueness, but the future is bright, as we still have Amaurys Minier and Engelb Vielma


No, it's because both of those guys are utility players. Solarte hit better but most say that his defense is pretty bad anywhere that he plays. If Solarte could be projected to be a startable player then this second guessing would be warranted. Solarte mania will die down in a month when he is back on the bench and his numbers look like a utility player.

#31 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:18 AM

That little RF in Fenway is nice like that. Still doesn't mean he couldn't have been pretty great, I suppose. Potentially some managerial issues as well?

RF in Fenway isn't all that little. In any case, the Baggie at the dome would seem to have been pretty inviting too.

The managerial thing might have some traction, but in the end it seems to me no matter how you slice it, the Twins blew this one big time.

Back on topic, I doubt us or them regret losing Solarte for long.

#32 biggentleben

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:08 PM

RF in Fenway isn't all that little. In any case, the Baggie at the dome would seem to have been pretty inviting too.

The managerial thing might have some traction, but in the end it seems to me no matter how you slice it, the Twins blew this one big time.

Back on topic, I doubt us or them regret losing Solarte for long.


Ortiz has said multiple times that he became the hitter he did with the tutelage of Ron Jackson, who worked with him a lot when he came over.

Regardless, you're talking about a guy who the Red Sox signed to be a platoon DH, not even a full-time starter. Any rip on the Twins on the topic is simply pollyanic.
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#33 jokin

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:02 PM

Ortiz has said multiple times that he became the hitter he did with the tutelage of Ron Jackson, who worked with him a lot when he came over.

Regardless, you're talking about a guy who the Red Sox signed to be a platoon DH, not even a full-time starter. Any rip on the Twins on the topic is simply pollyanic.


The Sox brought him to be platoon DH true because that's kind of what he'd deomonstrated his career had merited to that point in time. And by Ryan's own admission that releasing him was his worst move ever, the team that should have known the most about what Ortiz's upside potential actually was, was the Twins. And do the "pollyanic rips on the Twins" include Ortiz's own words, as well?

Thankfully, I doubt we'll be having this discussion about Solarte 10 years from now.

#34 jokin

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:04 PM

No, it's because both of those guys are utility players. Solarte hit better but most say that his defense is pretty bad anywhere that he plays. If Solarte could be projected to be a startable player then this second guessing would be warranted. Solarte mania will die down in a month when he is back on the bench and his numbers look like a utility player.


A month? You give it that long to die down?

#35 Thrylos

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:33 PM

. Solarte mania will die down in a month when he is back on the bench and his numbers look like a utility player.


Interesting thought and it might be that case. But, in a month from now, who do you think will have better numbers overall: Solarte or Florimon?

just sayin'
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#36 Jim H

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

Interesting thought and it might be that case. But, in a month from now, who do you think will have better numbers overall: Solarte or Florimon?

just sayin'


It is clear you don't care for Florimon, but come on, it is clear that Solarte is not a major league shortstop. These kind of comparsions are counter productive. Maybe the Twins should be looking harder for an upgrade at shortstop, but Solarte isn't it and you know it. He never had a chance to be a starting major league shortstop. A useful utility man, perhaps.

I suspect he is just a different version of Bernier or Beresford. Playing him everyday will likely expose his flaws. 2 organizations (not just the Twins) have let him move on by not placing him on the 40 man roster. Maybe he figured it out, matured or just realized what his glove was for. More likely he is what the Twins and Rangers thought he was, nice organizational depth-borderline major league utility man.

Edited by Jim H, 06 April 2014 - 07:09 PM.


#37 jokin

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:10 PM

It is clear you don't care for Florimon, but come on, it is clear that Solarte is not a major league shortstop. These kind of comparsions are counter productive. Maybe the Twins should be looking harder for an upgrade at shortstop, but Solarte isn't it and you know it. He never had a chance to be a starting major league shortstop. A useful utility man, perhaps.

I suspect he is just a different version of Bernier or Beresford. Playing him everyday will likely expose his flaws. 2 organizations (not just the Twins) have let him move on by not placing him on the 40 man roster. Maybe he figured it out, matured or just realized what his glove was for. More likely he is what the Twins and Rangers thought he was, nice organizational depth-borderline major league utility man.


At least with the Rangers he was blocked by Andrus, Kinsler and Profar. And he did just beat out a 4-year MLB vet, Nunez, for a roster spot on the Yankees. In watching his video highlight package, his play in the field looked competent. And I was stunned to see that both ZiPS and Steamer projecting him for a positive dWAR this year. He's a mystery man, for sure, and he's not a major league SS and most likely Util player of the day material, but it is the kind of highly unlikely story, like Colabello only moreso because of the Yankee media spotlight, that makes the game so interesting.

#38 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:49 PM

Ortiz has said multiple times that he became the hitter he did with the tutelage of Ron Jackson, who worked with him a lot when he came over.

Regardless, you're talking about a guy who the Red Sox signed to be a platoon DH, not even a full-time starter. Any rip on the Twins on the topic is simply pollyanic.

Ortiz put up OPS's of .817, .810, .799 and .839 in his four semi-full time years with the Twins, the last as a 26 yr old. He OPS'd over .900 at every level in the minors except rookie ball, hitting for average, with patience and power.

IMO, it's impossible NOT to rip on the Twins over David Ortiz. They RELEASED him. Over a couple million bucks. To keep Matthew Lecroy. Nobody could predict he'd turn into a HOFer, but it didn't take a baseball genius to see he could hit, and would be worth the relatively small price it would have taken to keep him around, at least for a few more years, in a league with a DH.

#39 kab21

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

Ortiz put up OPS's of .817, .810, .799 and .839 in his four semi-full time years with the Twins, the last as a 26 yr old. He OPS'd over .900 at every level in the minors except rookie ball, hitting for average, with patience and power.

IMO, it's impossible NOT to rip on the Twins over David Ortiz. They RELEASED him. Over a couple million bucks. To keep Matthew Lecroy. Nobody could predict he'd turn into a HOFer, but it didn't take a baseball genius to see he could hit, and would be worth the relatively small price it would have taken to keep him around, at least for a few more years, in a league with a DH.


This really gets old. Lecroy put up similar to numbers to Ortiz (as a Twin) after Ortiz left. Right or wrong (in hindsight it was definitely wrong) the Twins made a decision to only keep one tubby DH. If Ortiz had continued to put up .800 OPS's as a platoon DH then very few people would be bellyaching today. But Ortiz became a HOF caliber player instead so it's just another opportunity to call the front office idiots.

#40 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:52 PM

Or, maybe when he said he went there and they told him to stop moving the runner over, and to HIT the ball, he was truthful. After all, Gomez just said the same thing on Fangraphs.

On topic, congrats to Solarte!

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?