Was anyone else caught offgaurd watching the game on FSN. They announced during the game that doctors made a last minute decision to do TJ surgery on Scott Baker. This will certainly prolong the recovery effort.

Wow, this caught me by surprise as well. I wonder if he's played his last game in a Twins uniform. That 9 million dollar option looks even bigger now...

Yeah, that was bizarre. I checked around, but I didn't see it posted online anywhere.

If there was a chance the Twins were gonna excercise the option its gone now. I could see the Twins offering him and incentive filled contract with a base of around $500K next year. Perhaps a club option for 2014.

bye bye baker.

Was anyone else caught offgaurd...doctors made a last minute decision to do TJ surgery on Scott Baker.

From what I know this is typical of joint surgery. It's discussed beforehand and determined if the doctor should fix whatever needs fixing once he exposes the area and can see the damage. Obviously he had the go-ahead.

Apparently something similar happened to Russ Ortiz back in 2008. The article on the Strib about it implied that the decision was made after surgery had already begun, after they saw the elbow on the inside. I'm assuming Baker consented to the surgery if the doc thought it necesary, otherwise there's gonna be a big 'ol lawsuit

Below is an excerpt from the Twins April 6 Prognosis. Everyone can draw their own conclusion.

But the good news is that, according to the Twins, there doesn't appear to be enough structural damage to keep Baker out for a long time, and if Altchek feels the same, the righthander could resume pitching again soon

reported by Joe Christensen

Below is an excerpt from the Twins April 6 Prognosis. Everyone can draw their own conclusion.

But the good news is that, according to the Twins, there doesn't appear to be enough structural damage to keep Baker out for a long time, and if Altchek feels the same, the righthander could resume pitching again soon

reported by Joe Christensen

disgusting.

At this point, if you're a player, would you believe a single thing the Twins medical staff told you?

Nope, and I'd not come here to pitch either.

I think I'd like to hear a little more detail about what actually happened with the surgery before I call the Twins medical staff liars

Nobody is a liar. Twins and medical professionals on twitter saying sometimes MRI can't show everything. Could only know when went under the knife.

Its obvious that the Twins staff missed diagnosed Baker's injury.


Below is the paste of the April 6 report

'An MRI exam on Scott Baker's troublesome elbow revealed the Twins right-hander has a mild flexor strain similar to the injury that scratched him from a start last July, according to general manager Terry Ryan.'

Its obvious that the Twins staff missed diagnosed Baker's injury.


Below is the paste of the April 6 report

'An MRI exam on Scott Baker's troublesome elbow revealed the Twins right-hander has a mild flexor strain similar to the injury that scratched him from a start last July, according to general manager Terry Ryan.'


According to Terry Ryan? Shouldn't it be according to someone with a medical degree. He's smart and all but interpreting MRI results should be handled by someone trained to do so. Like the Brewers Medical Staff.

The Medical staff reports their findings to Terry Ryan. He is the spokesman.

lol... Thanks for clearing that up. I thought that TR was administering the exam and interpreting the results and reporting to the public.

Im stumped now because I thought I just solved the Twins Medical problems right there. Back to the drawing board.

Lots of doctors on this site. Good to know.

TR says they prepped Baker for the possibility of TjS. It wasn't a surprise. Not a misdiagnosis. People just like to complain.

TR says they prepped Baker for the possibility of TjS. It wasn't a surprise. Not a misdiagnosis. People just like to complain.

A few days before Baker's "second opinion" Ryan was on KFAN basically calling out Baker, saying there was nothing wrong with him. Similar quotes in the papers.

There seems to be a continuing problem with the Twins medical staff, and I'm not basing my opinion on an isolated incident.

People just like to make excuses.

Doctors aren't idiots, people. Some things just really are more difficult than some of you want to make it out to be.

Anyway, yes, go away Baker. There is no reason to bother with him for more than $1 million. Maybe they could get half a year of goodness out of him before he breaks down again.

A few days before Baker's "second opinion" Ryan was on KFAN basically calling out Baker, saying there was nothing wrong with him. Similar quotes in the papers.

There seems to be a continuing problem with the Twins medical staff, and I'm not basing my opinion on an isolated incident.

People just like to make excuses.

So what? TR ain't a doctor. He was right by the way, either you are hurt and cant pitch or you are healthy . Turns out he was hurt.

I'm sure I read that Altchek didn't find any damage to the UCL when Baker got a second opinion from him. And Baker never experienced pain in that area. Sounds like he found damage that was only revealed when they opened him up.

Doctors aren't idiots, people. Some things just really are more difficult than some of you want to make it out to be.

Anyway, yes, go away Baker. There is no reason to bother with him for more than $1 million. Maybe they could get half a year of goodness out of him before he breaks down again.

I agree that Doctors are not idiots... Getting through Med School tends to weed most of the idiots out. I also want to be very clear that I have no idea if the Twins medical staff is solid or not. I don't even know if my own Dr... The one that checks my prostate with what feels like both of her fists and one fist of the nurse(they stand awfully close together). I don't know if she is a solid doctor or not.

With that said. The field of Medicine would be just like Baseball and Garbage Collection. Some are better then others at their jobs and there are bad Doctors. I ran into one on vacation in Florida. I developed a bad rash on my ankle. He looked at it... Circled it with a sharpie and said I don't know, He recommends the ER right away... I go to the ER... Wait for 5 hours of my vacation time... They say I have a rash. It was really easy for them to find because I had this huge red blotch of skin and it was circled by a sharpie.

I return home from vacation and there is a bill from the first doctor waiting for me. $100 for 30 seconds to circle it with a sharpie, say he doesn't know and ship me to the ER when the diagnosis was rash. True story... So yeah there are bad ones... I don't know what side of the scale the Twins staff fits in. No way of knowing and hard to assume anything. But I do believe I will be able to make fun of them with the recent track record.

Wow. Completely surprised by this news. But while I think the Twins medical staff has bungled plenty in the recent past, including portions of Baker's treatment/management, I don't think this was an error on their part. Pitching is extremely hard on the UCL, and the procedure has been so successful, that many pitchers are in a situation where they have the choice whether or not to pitch through an issue, or simply get the procedure done and have essentially a "new elbow".

Here, Baker probably made the decision that if he was already undergoing a surgical procedure that was going to take him out months at a time, he might as well have TJ surgery done if there was even the slightest sign of trouble. He misses a little more time, but in theory, he could be back and ready to go for the foreseeable future in 12-18 months. Had they not done this procedure now, he would heal from the other injury and have a separate issue hanging over his head. Whether or not the Twins could have conveyed this possibility a little more clearly in their presser is another matter...

I think this puts to bed any talk about picking up his 2013 option for $9+ million. I was starting to be convinced by LaVelle's thought that the Twins were desperate enough to take a 1-year gamble, but now I can't see Baker back before June/July 2013 at the absolute earliest, and he won't really be up to speed until the start of 2014. I wish him all the best, and if these procedures go well, he could have several years in his early 30's as a very good middle-of-the rotation pitcher for another team.

Not to sound arrogant, but I actually am a doctor (family medicince resident) and here are my two cents: MRIs are great, but they depend on the quality of the study (how much the patient moves, etc) and the person reading it. It sounds like they got 2 opinions on the read, and based on that the MRI didnt show the injury. As an isolated incident, not worth calling for the medical staff's collective head (but bad news for Baker and the Twins). But, with everything that has happened recently with injuries (especially 2011) it makes me wonder about the Twins medical staff. There seemed to be a lot of misdiagnosed, mistreated, undertreated and/or questionable medical decisions made (ie. bilateral leg weakness).
Again, Im not a radiologist or surgeon, so Im far from an expert.

A few days before Baker's "second opinion" Ryan was on KFAN basically calling out Baker, saying there was nothing wrong with him. Similar quotes in the papers.

People just like to make excuses.

From just before the second opinion (in the papers)...


Asked if the team is frustrated with Baker, Ryan said, "No. It's legitimate; he just doesn't feel right."
Ryan said the Twins are trying to get Baker some peace of mind. "He's trying. He works hard. What are you going to do? He just doesn't feel right," Ryan said.

Is Terry Ryan the worst ever at calling someone out or did you maybe try to make something out of it that wasn't there?

People just like to make trouble.

The Twins medical staff have their fair share of misdiagnoses and stuff like that. However, in this case Baker went to D. Atleck who did his own mri and just found a problem with the Flexor Tendon and nothing wrong with the UCL ligament. So that is two different independent opinions. I talked to a dr. who reads alot of MRi'S he said that MRI's can be inaccurate due to if someone moves and many other things. Atleck, Baker, and the Twins obviously talked and decided between the 3 of them that when he went inside he was to repair whatever needed repairing. It sucks for Baker who will now be a free agent rehabbing, but this is not on the Twins. He should just be glad he is getting it cleaned up now and can have many healthy years ahead of him. whether its with the Twins or somewhere else I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.

I think I'd like to hear a little more detail about what actually happened with the surgery before I call the Twins medical staff liars

I think you are missing the point. It's not about lying. It's about incompetence.

Yes, they go in not knowing for absolute sure and the patient is prepared for them doing "whatever needs doing". However, I remember a video I saw of an interview with Baker where he was talking about his injury and said something like, "the good new is, the ucl looks fine". Yow. When they give these results they sound so sure. They should say "the MRI has been interpreted as..." and also say MRIs are not always crystal clear. People probably don't know they aren't.

Yes, they go in not knowing for absolute sure and the patient is prepared for them doing "whatever needs doing". However, I remember a video I saw of an interview with Baker where he was talking about his injury and said something like, "the good new is, the ucl looks fine". Yow. When they give these results they sound so sure. They should say "the MRI has been interpreted as..." and also say MRIs are not always crystal clear. People probably don't know they aren't.

Patients sometimes interpret what the doctor tells them, differently than the doctor thought he was saying.

Not to sound arrogant, but I actually am a doctor (family medicince resident) and here are my two cents: MRIs are great, but they depend on the quality of the study (how much the patient moves, etc) and the person reading it. It sounds like they got 2 opinions on the read, and based on that the MRI didnt show the injury. As an isolated incident, not worth calling for the medical staff's collective head (but bad news for Baker and the Twins). But, with everything that has happened recently with injuries (especially 2011) it makes me wonder about the Twins medical staff. There seemed to be a lot of misdiagnosed, mistreated, undertreated and/or questionable medical decisions made (ie. bilateral leg weakness).
Again, Im not a radiologist or surgeon, so Im far from an expert.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I think a lot of people are starting to wonder about the Twins medical staff, for the reasons you cited.

In the case of Mauer and bilateral leg weakness, however, I think that was a different situation. The perception (and perhaps the reality) is that Mauer operates under a different set of rules, and they weren't really able or willing to monitor his offseason activities while the hometown boy was "wintering" down in Florida. I think the public is right to question what was really wrong with him in 2011 because we STILL were not given a true medical explanation for what his problem was.

Remember that when Magic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV, he officially had "flu-like symptoms" for two weeks while they debated how/if to tell the public. Obviously, I'm not saying Mauer had anything nearly that severe. But if you sign a gigantic contract and then miss that kind of time in its first year without even providing a sound medical reason for what is wrong with you, people will speculate.

Barreiro nailed it today. Baker wasn't comfortable with the elbow, but the Twins brass wouldn't listen. Is there a training staff/organization that makes this mistake more than the Twins?

From just before the second opinion (in the papers)...


Asked if the team is frustrated with Baker, Ryan said, "No. It's legitimate; he just doesn't feel right."
Ryan said the Twins are trying to get Baker some peace of mind. "He's trying. He works hard. What are you going to do? He just doesn't feel right," Ryan said.

Is Terry Ryan the worst ever at calling someone out or did you maybe try to make something out of it that wasn't there?

People just like to make trouble.

That's true, but that wasn't the song Ryan was singing when the team was forced to retroactively place Baker on the DL so he could strengthen his arm in the minors. He didn't flat out call Baker a cry-baby, he just passive aggressively implied that Baker should have been ready to go already and that he needed to suck it up and get back into the rotation.

The fact that the they needed a second opinion probably tipped him off that something might be amiss. I don't think most people are blaming Ryan though, he's getting the same faulty information the public has been getting. I don't know what the normal accuracy of a medical diagnosis is, but the guys performing the Twins exams are surely well below average in that department. Fair or not they are going to face the repercussions. These mistakes are bringing too much heat to the front office and coaching staff.

Not to sound arrogant, but I actually am a doctor (family medicince resident) and here are my two cents:

First off... I loved your post... It's great to hear from someone with a degree on the subject. Family Medicine is the greatest thing for worried moms... For Dads... We'd appreciate a wet bar in the waiting room. Since I'm thinking about it... Don't put the Television up so high in the corner. I'm only 5-9 and tippy toes at my age and weight is not a good thing to watch something else beside Oprah.

2ndly... I just had to marvel at your first line. I believe it is possible to say I'm a Doctor. Without anyone assuming arrogence. lol...

First off... I loved your post... It's great to hear from someone with a degree on the subject. Family Medicine is the greatest thing for worried moms... For Dads... We'd appreciate a wet bar in the waiting room. Since I'm thinking about it... Don't put the Television up so high in the corner. I'm only 5-9 and tippy toes at my age and weight is not a good thing to watch something else beside Oprah.

2ndly... I just had to marvel at your first line. I believe it is possible to say I'm a Doctor. Without anyone assuming arrogence. lol...

I think the funniest part is imagining this person typing the post. You know the emphasis was on "actually", while holding a slight smirk that said, "take that the rest of you peasants"

I think the funniest part is imagining this person typing the post. You know the emphasis was on "actually", while holding a slight smirk that said, "take that the rest of you peasants"

Yeah, pretty much... ;-)
Like I said, Im not a surgeon, so it wasnt as condescending as it could have been...

I suspect that Baker will get multiple short-term offers (a base salary for 2013 with a nice option for 2014) from numerous teams, hoping that he recovers. Hey, the Twins gambled a million almost on Zumaya...just for a nice short look (explain how that happened and why they didn't just 60-day him to control him for the remainder of the year, at least). I doubt the Twins will be in the running...unless Baker really likes being here.

Per multiple sources on Twitter, it sounds like Baker was told there was a 20% chance of TJ surgery before the procedure started. And, the ligament wasnt torn, just stretched beyond what is normal, especially for pitching. so, I guess the MRI wasnt totally wrong.