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Thread: Article: The Hangout Returns ~ January 7, 2014

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    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Article: The Hangout Returns ~ January 7, 2014


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    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    Just counting down the minutes until the hangout returns. 28 minutes to go. Let's do this!

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    Hall of fame is about the numbers not the characters of the individual. PED blew up the numbers against previous players numbers. Pete Rose should be in the Hall of fame. Bonds, Clemens should not be because the way they cheated the game inflated their numbers. Cap Hanson, Ty Cobb, Pete Rose etc.... Bad human beings, but didn't do anything to blow up their numbers.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Pete Rose cheated because his actions were against the rules of baseball.

    Bonds, Clemens... their actions were not against the rules of baseball...

    ...at that time. If someone wants to say that Ryan Braun is not a Hall of Famer, I would agree because he got caught cheating after the rules were in place.

    That's the distinction.

    Greenies/Amphetamines weren't illegal in baseball when Hank Aaron and Willie Mays (and probably all players of their era) used them. They are illegal now. Should they be out of the HOF?

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    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    You can download the audio-only version of tonight's show (later tonight) by visiting our page on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...776886965?mt=2

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOHG View Post
    Hall of fame is about the numbers not the characters of the individual.
    Entry to the Hall is by election, and the electors are actually given the following guidance by the Hall:

    5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

    (My emphasis added.)

    Source:
    http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/...election/bbwaa

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Entry to the Hall is by election, and the electors are actually given the following guidance by the Hall:

    5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

    (My emphasis added.)

    Source:
    http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/...election/bbwaa

    Its nice and fancy wording, but its still only about the numbers. If those factors played any significant part in the voting Babe Ruth would not be in the HOF. Ty Cobb would never even been considered. Voters care about the numbers fans care about the numbers. They are looking at the numbers, 500 hrs, 3000 hits, 300 wins etc... They really could care less about integrity, sportsmanship, character otherwise a lot of players would never see the HOF or be kicked out of it if that was possible.

    Clemens, Bonds cheated the numbers by using drugs that provided better recovery time and prolonged production that shouldn't have been the case into their late 30's and early 40's. They didn't just cheat the fans who witnessed fake moments in baseball history, but cheated past players whose numbers are legit. Hank Aaron is the home run king. Roger Maris has the single season HR record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Pete Rose cheated because his actions were against the rules of baseball.

    Bonds, Clemens... their actions were not against the rules of baseball...

    ...at that time. If someone wants to say that Ryan Braun is not a Hall of Famer, I would agree because he got caught cheating after the rules were in place.

    That's the distinction.

    Greenies/Amphetamines weren't illegal in baseball when Hank Aaron and Willie Mays (and probably all players of their era) used them. They are illegal now. Should they be out of the HOF?
    Apples and Oranges...Those drugs are not HGH or Steroids. Those drugs don't extend a players productive years well past their prime. The effectiveness of current medication and drugs compared to the ones in 1940's, 1950's and 1960's are night and day, but most important is access to these drugs. It would be very hard to say that those drugs where more wide spread then PED's in the steroid era, just based on knowledge and availability.

    As for the distinction. Baseball is a game of numbers and the only way for those numbers to be compared to past individual numbers is to have a somewhat reasonable level of fairness. Keep the game the same and the integrity of the game intact. PED was and is a technological advantage brought into the game which compromised that fairness to past players accomplishments that the HOF is comparing. Even if it wasn't illegal. Just because something isn't banned from baseball and isn't illegal that doesn't mean that it doesn't compromise the numbers and integrity of the game.

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    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Apples and Oranges are both fruit. Just saying

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Oranges can be delicious but apples can't be navel.

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