01-07-2014, 09:59 PM #81
Bourne was near the bottom. He had SO 23%, had an ISO of .097 and an OPS of 676.
I think Cleveland’s improvement could be interpreted differently. Masterson went from an ERA of 4.93 in 2012 to 3.45 in 2013. Jimenez improved from an ERA of 5.40 to 3.30. They added Kazmir who pitched to a 4.04 ERA and was really good the 2nd half. Kluber went from 5.14 to 3.85. McAlister improved from 4.24 to 3.75. I realize this is a bit farfetched but it’s the rough equivalent to getting rid of a rather poor staff and replacing it with 3 of Nolasco and 2 of Garza at his very best.
I would attribute their improvement to massive improvement in their two primary starters, and two young guys panning out nicely (McAlister / Kluber) as well as a FA pick-up frequently characterized as dumpster diving here. (Kazmir)
You also have to consider who do they have to replace that production. They lose 2 more games they are not in the playoffs. They lose 1, they would have played game 163. Pretty sure Swisher and Bourn helped them win at least two more games.
01-07-2014, 10:01 PM #82
01-07-2014, 10:02 PM #83
I've read nothing but good from managers and players in regards to Drew.
Like I've said, I'm not opposed to signing him. I'm ok with it. But there are clearly some issues with this guy. As there is with most any player really.
01-07-2014, 10:03 PM #84
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01-07-2014, 10:12 PM #86
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I have to admit I didn't understand Escobar not getting a shot last season. I guess the question to me is whether or not Escobar can be a good ML SS. With Florimon, you get a good glove for cheap. I'd rather have Drew than Florimon, but I'm not sold on the price. I'm not going to get worked up about this either way, but why is it that I have this gut feeling that we are going to sign Drew only to watch Escobar outperform him...
01-07-2014, 10:16 PM #87
Signing Drew should not be the final move as it leans towards contending within the first two years. There's still flexibility to improve the team after his signing. Drew would just be the biggest immediate upgrade for what's available. He is also going to be a good value considering what the market is.
Barring injury or a complete breakdown (which is a risk for any free agent), you could always recoup value through a trade, if the team continues to fail.
01-07-2014, 10:16 PM #88
As a mod, I just wanted to compliment everyone posting in this thread, pro and con, for making good points and staying away from negative emotions.Every post is not every other post. - a wise man
01-07-2014, 10:22 PM #89
Last edited by jokin; 01-07-2014 at 11:42 PM.
01-07-2014, 10:23 PM #90
I had little to no idea they were close on Nolasco and Hughes. Then BOOM, they were signed. So maybe the Twins could be the infamous "mystery team" that comes out of nowhere.
01-07-2014, 10:27 PM #91
The Twins could also sign one more starting pitcher considering Deduno might not be as healthy as we want him in 2014.. What about Garza?
Florimon is the only positional player on the team who is within striking distance at being #2 in the MLB defensively at his position and he just came off his first full season in the MLB. Considering his price tag and the fact that the Twins aren't going anywhere next year, I think he's earned at least one more season to show some sort of improvement.
I'd rather the Twins upgrade Center Field (empty), 3rd base (Plouffe is at the end of his rope), DH (empty), Catcher (Suzuki?), 1 more starting pitcher (Deduno's health is a ?) before SS. I think when you have a guy who has the tools to potentially be the #2 SS next year @ $500,000, you give him an opportunity to improve both this defense and his hitting.
I was just fine with JJ Hardy as our SS. It's unfortunate that the FO didn't see him as a long term solution. The Twins are going through a transition so there are going to be some tough decisions. Do you sign someone or do you give X player a chance. Do you sign someone or do you put filler out there until x prospect is ready? There are a lot of tough decisions and I would prefer if the Twins didn't make too many knee jerk reactions. So far, I think they are doing a pretty good job this off season.
Last edited by Reider; 01-07-2014 at 10:41 PM.
01-07-2014, 10:35 PM #92
I think everyone was in complete agreement that the SP issue needed to be dealt with. Most fans have been calling for what TR finally did this offseason since he came out of retirement, and before then.
The problem with you being right in line with Twins management is that they've been so wrong before in overestimating what their existing talent can actually deliver. At this point, the offense for 2014 looks to be even more anemic than 2013. The cost-benefit analysis in my book is dropping the team ERA for lets say, $40M/yr with the addition of Garza and subtraction of Correia, by, let's say one run/gm. means nothing but a shot at .500 if the GM stands pat with the bats and the offensive RPG drops by 0.5/gm. The money is most certainly available, the player is available (Drew or Hardy). Now throw in the what-if..... Sano and Meyer join the team by May-June and put up ROY-level numbers, you now have a fighting chance to get towards being a wild-card contender.
Last edited by jokin; 01-07-2014 at 10:46 PM.
01-07-2014, 10:44 PM #93
Look at this comp:
Swisher 634 PA (mostly at 1B), .246/.341/.423 3.8 bWar
Morneau 635 PA, .259/.323/.426 2.0 bWar
It even looks as though Morneau get penalized more for defense than Swisher although his stats are better at 1B and Swisher was below average in the OF.
01-07-2014, 10:51 PM #94
01-07-2014, 10:56 PM #95
01-07-2014, 11:13 PM #96
How many people here actually thought after last year's offseason the Twins might be considering such things as signing Drew and Garza after already signing Nolasco, Hughes and Pelfrey? It's nice to be discussing this with a hint that the Twins might even be considering it. I realize that a great deal of it has to do with salary that was cleared from last year and the extra $25M from MLB, but it's nice to at least have more hope going in to the upcoming season.
01-07-2014, 11:14 PM #97
Now we need our first wave of young guys to step up and improve!
01-07-2014, 11:15 PM #98
01-07-2014, 11:18 PM #99
As much as I like Florimon, I would be fine if the Twins took an "all in" approach and replaced him as I am sick and tired of watching the Twins fight for last, just like every other fan. However, if the Twins don't take the all-in approach offensively, i'd rather Florimon be given a chance to improve his numbers from last season.
As a side note, Plouffe and Parmelee have had plenty of opportunities already and they are still around. Replace those guys and then we'll talk about replacing Florimon.
01-07-2014, 11:22 PM #100
Last edited by jokin; 01-07-2014 at 11:25 PM.