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Thread: Danny Valencia traded to Royals

  1. #1
    Senior Member Triple-A Danchat's Avatar
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    Danny Valencia traded to Royals

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/o...,7915908.story
    Danny Valencia is going to his 4th major league team, the Kansas City Royals. The Orioles received OF David Lough in exchange.
    And to think someone like Valencia can get you a decent outfielder. Since Plouffe is nearly the same guy, could we get a player like Lough back for him? At first glance, the Orioles won this trade, but then someone will mention Valencia is better if he only faces lefties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danchat View Post
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/o...,7915908.story
    Danny Valencia is going to his 4th major league team, the Kansas City Royals. The Orioles received OF David Lough in exchange.
    And to think someone like Valencia can get you a decent outfielder. Since Plouffe is nearly the same guy, could we get a player like Lough back for him? At first glance, the Orioles won this trade, but then someone will mention Valencia is better if he only faces lefties.
    David Lough? Wow. And what did we get for Danny V? Oh, that's right, a Rookie Ball OF way too old for his level. On second thought, maybe the Twins shouldn't try trading with Baltimore, they seem to know what they're doing with playing other team's castoffs to their strenghths and generating new-found value.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    That's a great return unless the Royals platoon him. Then it might work out for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    That's a great return unless the Royals platoon him. Then it might work out for them.
    Not tons of original thinkers in sports. A smart GM sees how another GM was able to extract value, and now he has a need and can plug that perceived "value" into his system. I hope the Twins are watching as well, because this is just the way that they could get a better deal for Plouffe when the time comes (even his last name practiaclly spells out "platoon").

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Not tons of original thinkers in sports. A smart GM sees how another GM was able to extract value, and now he has a need and can plug that perceived "value" into his system. I hope the Twins are watching as well, because this is just the way that they could get a better deal for Plouffe when the time comes (even his last name practiaclly spells out "platoon").
    A smart GM always tries to trade with the Royals.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    The only thing this trade tells me is that Terry Ryan needs to call Dayton Moore and say "Hey, ol' buddy! Let's make a deal!".

    Giving up anything of value for Danny Valencia, a guy who had all of ~170 PAs last season and succeeded (again) based on an unsustainibly high BABIP of .339, is almost comical.

    The only time Valencia has had success in this league is when his BABIP is well outside the norm.

    Which basically means that Danny Valencia is good when Danny Valencia is lucky. Even the bulk of his homers just cleared the fence according PitchFX. He had a 1.079 OPS at Camden Yards and a .741 OPS on the road.

    The only thing Duquette did right here was recognize that he had a player on the roster whose "performance" (all 170 PAs of it) was luck-driven, called someone less intelligent than him, and hood-winked that GM into giving him something for Valencia before that player plummeted back to earth.

    Was it smart for Duquette to take a flyer on Valencia? Eh, I guess so, if only because the results worked out for him. But let's not confuse genius with dumb luck. There is no way Duquette could have predicted that Valencia would thrive in a very SSS by getting lucky. Because that can be said about any player.

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced one player is better than the other.

    I am convinced the move makes sense for both teams in the context of their respective roster situations.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    I'm not convinced one player is better than the other.

    I am convinced the move makes sense for both teams in the context of their respective roster situations.
    No, Lough isn't a terribly good player himself... But he's younger, is rangy enough to play the occasional CF (and therefore, be a decent fourth OF), and doesn't suffer from ugly splits.

    In short, he has a better chance of being a useful player.

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    If we grade this trade based on where each player finished in ROY voting, the Royals clearly won. 3rd place is better than 8th place. Congrats Royals, well done.

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    No, Lough isn't a terribly good player himself... But he's younger, is rangy enough to play the occasional CF (and therefore, be a decent fourth OF), and doesn't suffer from ugly splits.

    In short, he has a better chance of being a useful player.
    OK then, in isolation, Lough is the better lousy player.

    In context, Lough would be backing up Gordon, Cain, Aoki, Dyson, and Maxwell for 3 spots. He was also out of options.

    Instead of getting nothing for him they got a little depth at 3B. Its the sort of move Twins fans would applaud if TR did it.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    OK then, in isolation, Lough is the better lousy player.

    In context, Lough would be backing up Gordon, Cain, Aoki, Dyson, and Maxwell for 3 spots. He was also out of options.

    Instead of getting nothing for him they got a little depth at 3B. Its the sort of move Twins fans would applaud if TR did it.
    My issue is that I don't consider Valencia "depth". I consider him to be pretty much useless and 170 PAs with a .340 BABIP isn't going to convince me otherwise.

    We've been down this road with Valencia before. If his BABIP isn't outside the norm, he's not just bad, he's a boat anchor on the roster.

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I don't think Valencia has so far to regress. Mean BABIP is higher if you have the platoon advantage all the time, which is how Showalter used him last year.

    Actually, Lough was platooned too, he had a .326 BABIP.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    I don't think Valencia has so far to regress. Mean BABIP is higher if you have the platoon advantage all the time, which is how Showalter used him last year.

    Actually, Lough was platooned too, he had a .326 BABIP.
    But Lough had a .322 BABIP in 265 PAs against lefties. A little high but not outrageous given his speed and 8-9 IF hits in 2013.

    Valencia had a .405 BABIP in 102 PAs against lefties. Not the slightest bit sustainable and that SSS makes me reel.

    It should also be noted that he had a .394 BA and .429 BABIP in Camden Yards and a .286 BA and .262 BABIP away from it.

  16. #14
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    What was Valencia's BABIP against RHP's?

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    What was Valencia's BABIP against RHP's?
    An absurdly low .214. Surely that will go up but that's not the trending split you want to see from a platoon candidate.

  18. #16
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    OK so overall, some regression is likely, but probably not completely falling off a cliff.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    OK so overall, some regression is likely, but probably not completely falling off a cliff.
    It depends. Valencia has only had a "normal" BABIP in one season, 2011. It was .275, which is a bit low but given his makeup, that's not unreasonably low.

    And in 2011, he was below replacement level.

    Unless Danny Valencia is lucky, Danny Valencia is a very bad baseball player.

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    I think it's borderline hilarious that people are trying to declare a winner and a loser in this trade.

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  22. #19
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brock beauchamp View Post
    unless danny valencia is platooned, danny valencia is a very bad baseball player.
    ftfy

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    ftfy
    Except that we don't even know if he's a quality platoon candidate, as evidenced by his .405 (!) BABIP against lefties, which is surely going to plummet.

    What happens if that BABIP normalizes? Is he still a good platoon player? In this case, he probably is but he's not going to be nearly as good as he was in 2013.

    Not to mention that right-handed platoon players are marginalized to begin with, as it's so easy for teams to negate his split advantage after 5-6 innings. Also, LHP starters are far more uncommon than their right-handed equivalents. If Valencia is going to play at all, he's going to get 30-40% of his ABs against RHP.

    Platoons are great when they work but the left-handed hitter in a platoon is going to be far more valuable than the right-handed hitter in the same platoon.

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