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Thread: Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

  1. #181
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    During the past season when I looked for trade partners for players like Morneau, Willingham, Doumit, and Plouffe, Gilmartin was exactly the kind of guy I thought the Twins could get. A fringe top 20 prospect in the Twins organization. Certainly a worthwhile find, especially at age 23.5.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Kubel on a minor league deal doesn't make another move for a DH next to impossible.
    I would guess that it would be harder to attract a potential DH here now, if you are talking free agency.

    We could make a trade for one, but with Kubel and Willingham already in the fold, plus the Twins general preference of rotating players through the DH spot, it seems unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thetank View Post
    I thought Doumit didn't want to catch anymore which is why would the Braves want him since he won't DH in the NL?
    I think that report was erroneous. The source was actually just a poster who said he heard Howard Sinker mention it on the radio. (Maybe Sinker was speculating, or the listener misheard a reference to Mauer as a reference to Doumit.)

    In fact, Parker confirmed just the opposite with Doumit's agent. He still wants to catch.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I think that report was erroneous. The source was actually just a poster who said he heard Howard Sinker mention it on the radio. (Maybe Sinker was speculating, or the listener misheard a reference to Mauer as a reference to Doumit.)

    In fact, Parker confirmed just the opposite with Doumit's agent. He still wants to catch.

    Yup. It drives me to distraction that myths like this get traction and go uncorrected. Howard also made some mention in his column that Doumit was done catching- but only for the rest of 2013.

    Does anyone actually think that the NL Atlanta Braves, desperate for catching depth, would trade for Doumit while unsure of his ability or willingness to play the position?

  5. #185
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Doumit not catching would basically limit him to the AL. No way he would want to resign himself to that.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camp_Shocker View Post
    Speaking of Levi Michael... What is he doing for the organization? I never liked that draft pick anyways.
    There's a thread on him in the Adopt-a-Prospect forum section - better if we discuss him there:

    http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php...ospect-Project

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  8. #187
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    Or better yet, start a thread on him in the Adopt-a-Mascot forum.

    Also, start the Adopt-a-Mascot forum.

  9. #188
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AM. View Post
    This move is great, I like it. Here is the BP write-upon Gilmartin last year, when he was ranked #6 by Jason Parks I. The Braves' system:

    6. Sean Gilmartin
    Position: LHP
    DOB: 05/08/1990
    Height/Weight: 6’2’’ 190 lbs.
    Bats/Throws: L/L
    Drafted/Acquired: 1st round, 2011 draft, Florida State University (Tallahassee, FL)
    2012 Stats: 3.54 ERA (119.1 IP, 111 H, 86 K, 26 BB) at Double-A Mississippi; 4.78 ERA (37.2 IP, 41 H, 25 K, 13 BB) at Triple-A Gwinnett
    The Tools: 5 FB; 5 SL; 5+ CH


    What Happened in 2012: True to form, Gilmartin made 27 starts, logged 157 innings, and forced weak contact at two levels in the upper minors.


    Strengths: Pitchability; pedestrian fastball velocity, but can move pitch around and add/subtract; above average changeup is effective; keeps righties off fastball; has good sink and arm-side fade; slider flashes above average, works as average offering; good two-plane slice; above average command profile; makes it work.


    Weaknesses: Lacks true plus pitch; relies on sequence and location; pitches to weak contact; not big bat misser; curveball is get-me-over/change-the-sight-line pitch; will pitch backwards off changeup.


    Overall Future Potential: 5; no. 4 starter


    Explanation of Risk: Low risk; mature arsenal; pitchability; already achieved Triple-A level.


    Fantasy Future: Back-end innings chewer; league average at best; steady.


    The Year Ahead: A crowded rotation could keep Gilmartin in Triple-A for a healthy chunk of the 2013 season, but an opening is only an injury away, and the 22-year-old southpaw has the makeup and arsenal to step up to the highest level and hold his own. The stuff is average to solid average, but he makes it work by moving the ball around and changing speeds, keeping hitters from sitting on his upper-80s/low 90s fastball. It’s not a sexy profile, but dependable innings eaters have a lot of value, and Gilmartin looks like a safe bet to live up to that prophecy.
    The issue is that this was before his 2013 where he was hurt and really lost a lot of touch and feel for his pitches as well as velocity (and he didn't have a lot of velo to lose to start again). His review will be a lot different this year. Long reliever if he even makes the majors is his projection at this point.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  10. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I would guess that it would be harder to attract a potential DH here now, if you are talking free agency.

    We could make a trade for one, but with Kubel and Willingham already in the fold, plus the Twins general preference of rotating players through the DH spot, it seems unlikely.
    All I was saying is that the Twins would be foolish to put all of their LH DH eggs in one Kubel basket, a basket from which the bottom alarmingly fell out from a career in 2013 in AZ.

    If Kubel remains unimpressive in ST, the Twins need better options than just Parmelee and Hermann as their LH DH options ( I'm assuming that if Arcia is with the team, they want him playing in the OF full-time).

    A trade seems far easier to contemplate, but can Terry pull off any kind of deal for Mitch Moreland, Adam Lind or even Mike Carp? They all could be moved from their respective teams at the right price.

    In FA, Chavez was about the last LH FA worth considering. Reynolds L/R split isn't all that different enough to automatically preclude him from consideration, plus he could play in the corner infield without embarrassing himself. The salary projections are anywhere between $3M and $5M- the Twins are said to be interested, but are up against the Yankees, who appear to be taking no prisoners in revamping their roster.
    Last edited by jokin; 12-19-2013 at 01:44 PM.

  11. #190
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    Salary Dump or More?

    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    It's called prospect evaluation. Gilmartin is not a very good prospect. Even in his good season he didn't strike out many batters and his upside is the Correia, Blackburn or Diamond type of pitcher. He might make the majors and he might be fringy capable starter or reliever for awhile but it's more likely that he doesn't make contribute in the majors.

    And that's the point. This trade isn't about the prospect return. It's about moving Doumit in a trade (and the salary) instead of unceremoniously DFA'ing him (that wasn't going to happen).
    I had no idea your personal prospect evaluation trumps our favorite team's scouting department. The trade was about continuing to address our organization's need for left handed starting pitching. Who better to seek out than a prospect you previously considered drafting in the first round?
    Last edited by howieramone; 12-19-2013 at 02:38 PM.

  12. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I had no idea your personal prospect evaluation trumps our favorite team's scouting department. The trade was about continuing to address our organization's need for left handed starting pitching. Who better to seek out than a prospect you previously considered drafting in the first round?
    He is a carbon copy the 3 other lefties we already have, a solid #6 starter

  13. #192
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    Do not think Kubel is guaranteed a roster spot. Just think he is one of the options, my best guess is that his main roster competition is Parmelee, and if Kubel makes it Parmelee is gone. This was a good trade as it freed a roster spot from a player who was not in the Twins plans.

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  15. #193
    I think the people here are too quick to complain about personnel moves when there is a big makeover happening. I think it is more important to see how all the parts fit together than if you like or dislike all of the invididual parts.

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  17. #194
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I had no idea your personal prospect evaluation trumps our favorite team's scouting department. The trade was about continuing to address our organization's need for left handed starting pitching. Who better to seek out than a prospect you previously considered drafting in the first round?
    Howie,

    Most people on this board are pretty happy about the trade. I think I can safely say that most of us who are happy about it would not argue that Gilmartin is a really good prospect. I'm not even sure that the Twins would say that. The reality is that Doumit was increasingly the odd man out, had little value, and was probably going to be given away. The Twins got more value for him than anyone thought they could get... that is good. And in my opinion, had Doumit bounced back, the Twins wouldn't have done better at the deadline.

    That said, I'm not sure how constructive it is to argue about whether or not Kab (or anyone else's) personal opinion trumps that of the Twins. I don't think Kab has said anywhere that it does. I do, however, think that this is an internet site where everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as they are respectful, and Kab does that very well. Under those guidelines, people are well within their rights to have differing opinions. Arguing that someone's opionion doesn't matter because they aren't a member of the Twins isn't a good place to go given that this board has only 1 confirmed member of the Twins front office posting here and this forum is open to the public.

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  19. #195
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    He is a carbon copy the 3 other lefties we already have, a solid #6 starter
    But he's only 23 and couldn't you also say Doumit is a carbon copy of at least a couple of other alleged right fielders we have? Except he's the overpaid one

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  21. #196
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    But he's only 23 and couldn't you also say Doumit is a carbon copy of at least a couple of other alleged right fielders we have? Except he's the overpaid one
    "Alleged right fielders".

    What an apt description of the Twins current roster.

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  23. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    But he's only 23 and couldn't you also say Doumit is a carbon copy of at least a couple of other alleged right fielders we have? Except he's the overpaid one
    Only 23? So was Pedro Hernandez.

    But your point on Doumit is valid, it's time for even more moves like this, let's clear the clutter and gain the clarity on who we have....and who we should still consider acquiring.

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  25. #198
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    It's called prospect evaluation. Gilmartin is not a very good prospect. Even in his good season he didn't strike out many batters and his upside is the Correia, Blackburn or Diamond type of pitcher. He might make the majors and he might be fringy capable starter or reliever for awhile but it's more likely that he doesn't make contribute in the majors.

    And that's the point. This trade isn't about the prospect return. It's about moving Doumit in a trade (and the salary) instead of unceremoniously DFA'ing him (that wasn't going to happen).
    My only concern with your evaluation is lumping Correia in with Blackburn and Diamond. We know Correia is better than Blackburn and I would take a young Correia type pitcher who could pitch 200 innings for the next 6 years on the cheap for Doumit. Blackburn, no! Diamond is still partially a question mark but leaning more Blackburnish ATM... I'm rooting for a Correia type from this guy though. Not great but that's a serviceable return.

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  27. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I had no idea your personal prospect evaluation trumps our favorite team's scouting department. The trade was about continuing to address our organization's need for left handed starting pitching. Who better to seek out than a prospect you previously considered drafting in the first round?
    There is absolutely nothing about this trade that indicates the scouting department thinks Gilmartin is a good prospect. I'm sure they will publicly say that he is someone that they have targeted for a long time but it doesn't change his mediocre prospect status. I would consider him a borderline top 25 prospect. Worth having but nothing to get excited about or even likely to be a MLB contributor.

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  29. #200
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    Thread title: Twins Trade Doumit to Atlanta

    Spot on for a title. My point is: was the trade made to specifically acquire Gilmartin, or to move Doumit, or was it initiated by Atlanta because they wanted Doumit? Yes, there are two parties to this trade and either could have been the initiator. My take: Atlanta wanted Doumit, initiated the discussion, and then agreed to send Gilmartin. Maybe Ryan really is sold on yet another soft-tossing LHP (who has had recent injury) or maybe he is relieved to be rid of Doumit, his contract, and the roster spot--he didn't say. As far as I'm concerned the real value to the Twins is moving Doumit. The lottery ticket named Gilmartin is simply a bonus--but the Twins must realize that Gilmartin is nothing more than that as opposed to a "prospect". Sadly, the word "prospect" is tossed-around so loosely that its' meaning has been obfuscated.

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