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Thread: Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Ok, regarding Deduno, Worley, and Diamond, they are all out of options and it is a given that all of them won't be in the rotation this April. As was speculated on the blog "Moves to Come?" by J-Dog Dungan, I would expect one or two of those three to be moved. Trading for one of Houston's backup catchers might be a win for both sides--perhaps Diamond for Corporan and a non-roster prospect? It also wouldn't surprise me to see Samuel Deduno start the season on the Disabled List, perhaps even the 60-day. The acquisition of Kris Johnson and now Gilmartin makes Albers and Diamond more expendable.
    My guess is that they are already convinced Deduno will be on the 60-day DL. Worley or Diamond is the #5. The other moves to the pen, is traded or DFAed. I am not sure why this is getting so much play orther than it is an interesting situation.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by big dog View Post
    My impression after watching way too many Twins games last year is that Arcia was perhaps a little better than Doumit in the OF, but that's about it. I've seen worse (I lived in the Bay Area when Canseco and Chili Davis were both playing left field for their teams), but not many. He's got a ways to go to be adequate.
    I don't disagree, but the 2-3 scouting reports I've seen project he'll be no worse than average, and the Twins won't limit a 22 year-old to DH anytime soon. I think he'll be fine once he settles in at LF or RF.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I don't disagree, but the 2-3 scouting reports I've seen project he'll be no worse than average, and the Twins won't limit a 22 year-old to DH anytime soon. I think he'll be fine once he settles in at LF or RF.
    Bill Smith thought the same thing about Delmon Young at age 22.

    Delmon's dWAR/UZR history:

    Age 20 with the Rays: 0.2....5.7
    Age 21 with the Rays: -0.6...-8.0
    Age 22 with the Twins: -1.9.....-20.2

  4. #224
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Sorry, but not by any stretch of the imaginiation does Arcia play a decent right field. To put things in their proper perspective, Delmon Young was a better RF than Arcia. (And Delmon only got worse in the OF as the years went by, not better).
    I have a hard time believing Delmon was a better defender than Arcia.

    But yeah, Arcia's pretty bad out there. Brutal at times. Nothing close to "decent" at this point, though he's still young.

    But in all likelihood, he has DH written all over him.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I don't disagree, but the 2-3 scouting reports I've seen project he'll be no worse than average, and the Twins won't limit a 22 year-old to DH anytime soon. I think he'll be fine once he settles in at LF or RF.
    Usually the extent of those scouting reports is referencing that Arcia played some CF in rookie ball. I think the visual observations from his time in the majors are a lot more relevant.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    Usually the extent of those scouting reports is referencing that Arcia played some CF in rookie ball. I think the visual observations from his time in the majors are a lot more relevant.
    The ones I googled didn't reference CF or rookie ball and in fact were both approximately a year old. I agree visual observations are relevant, particularly if one has a basic understanding of the learning curve most young players face.

  7. #227
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    The ones I googled didn't reference CF or rookie ball and in fact were both approximately a year old. I agree visual observations are relevant, particularly if one has a basic understanding of the learning curve most young players face.
    Linking to these scouting reports would better facilitate conversation and validate your position.

    how often do scouts go watch a guy? Assessing defensive value takes a lot of data points which requires far more observation than swing or pitch mechanics because of the lack of chances. We who suffered through watching this year saw much more than many scouts. Less expertise to be sure, but far more relevant data.

    hopefully he gets better, but his instincts, range, and athleticism were all awful last year.

  8. #228
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    I didn't see it. But perhaps I was blinded by his bat to ignore his defensive lapses. I certainly wouldn't give up on him after a half a season in any case.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I didn't see it. But perhaps I was blinded by his bat to ignore his defensive lapses. I certainly wouldn't give up on him after a half a season in any case.
    Who is giving up on him?

    People are just saying that he's a bad defender.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    Who is giving up on him?

    People are just saying that he's a bad defender.
    Exactly right. No one as far as has I know who has posted here has said anything about giving up on him. If anything, his debut in 2013 was refreshing, from yet another new, very aggressive. left-handed batter who was entirely undaunted about the supposed "unfairness" of Target Field to lefties.

    It's OK to acknowledge that he's a bad defender, a bad defender who appears to have bad instincts, indicating there isn't much room for improvement. In an OF with 2 other Gold Glove-caliber stud defenders, it won't make virtually any difference, particularly if he turns out to be the premium hitter we all think he can become.

    And nothing wrong if/when he ends up in the rotation the way the Twins usually play their big hit/no field crew, Dhing for half of his ABs.
    Last edited by jokin; 12-21-2013 at 01:48 PM.

  11. #231
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    OK, well, in another thread, there were people giving up on him because, it seems, he will never be a good defender. I saw him take a few bad routes and get a few slow jumps. I also saw him make a couple of really good plays out there. So I don't think he's hopeless. Even if he's below average, he'll be a good player out there because of his bat. Perhaps his long-term position is DH. I'm not ready to say definitively that it is.

    A lot of teams have sub-par defenders in right field. The main thing that keeps those guys employed is their bats. His bat is special.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    OK, well, in another thread, there were people giving up on him because, it seems, he will never be a good defender. I saw him take a few bad routes and get a few slow jumps. I also saw him make a couple of really good plays out there. So I don't think he's hopeless. Even if he's below average, he'll be a good player out there because of his bat. Perhaps his long-term position is DH. I'm not ready to say definitively that it is.

    A lot of teams have sub-par defenders in right field. The main thing that keeps those guys employed is their bats. His bat is special.
    No one wants him gone, just pointing out part of his game that's subpar. In the other thread no one is giving up on him either, you just took another poster 100% on his word. I'd suggest the source there wasn't intending to relay an honest interpretation of the remarks.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 12-21-2013 at 03:05 PM.

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