Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 49

Thread: Deduno

  1. #21
    This is an instance where Terry Ryan is in a bit of a pickle. Not adding Pelfrey means he's banking on a lot of ifs - if Deduno's shoulder is healthy, if Gibson can figure it out, if Meyer is ready to make the leap, if Diamond or Worley can have a light come on. Suddenly he is criticized for trotting out AAAA pitching and not giving us a chance to win. Signing Pelfrey opens him up to criticism that he is arbitrarily not giving the "young guys" a chance.

    After three consecutive years of significantly underachieving in the pitching department, I would rather see TR hedge this direction than the other. Too much good pitching is a problem that TR will happily take as a problem come June.

  2. These 4 users like Zephrin's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    ericchri (12-17-2013), Joe A. Preusser (12-16-2013), Tibs (12-16-2013), Willihammer (12-16-2013)

  3. #22
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    306
    Like
    0
    Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
    The Twins still have one of the worst rotations in MLB. Deduno is a non-entity... it's like a baseball form of Stockholm Syndrome around here- fans going nuts over AAAA pitchers that don't belong on a 75 win team (not that the Twins are that good yet). And getting excited about having a bunch of AAAA pitchers hanging around... how wonderful.

  4. #23
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,059
    Like
    1,235
    Liked 688 Times in 444 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    You can make the exact same argument for Pelfrey. Deduno's line drive % is 20.3%, Pelfrey's 20.8%. Pretty much identical based on sample size. Deduno's HR/FB rate was 10.3%, Pelfrey's 7%.

    So really, hitters made weaker contact from Pelfrey (who happens to be more of a fly ball pitcher and if you have the likes of Willingham, Parmelee, Doumit, Colabello et al at the OF, you will end up having the second highest BABIP in the majors for pitchers who pitched more than 150 innings...)
    Interesting... Ok... You found similar LD% and I suppose I asked for that... However... If you keep going... You can find Deduno stats that compare to Cole Hamels and David Price when isolated.

    His GB% was pretty good and I watched each start. It was weak contact.

    In the end... Sam Hung Zero's.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  5. #24
    Also, I don't think the Twins are afraid of pulling the plug on a failed starting pitcher, even if he is making a reasonable salary. We cut Livan and his $5 mil contract mid-season and we ate 1.5 years of Blackburn's $5 (or so) mil contract. If Correa or Pelfrey aren't getting it done and we have AAA guys that look ready to step in, I think they will make that call.

  6. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
    Posts
    1,509
    Like
    12
    Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by MNfan34 View Post
    I really like Deduno. I expect him or Worley to win the 5th starter spot.

    That said, if they both clearly outpitch Pelfrey or say Correia, I don't think that Twins will stand in the way of that. Those guys are only making 5 million per.

    I also think that injuries will clear this situation up. Either someone on our roster isn't going to be healthy, or some other team (not necessarily a contender) is going to have some attrition and will need to turn to the twins for cheap rotation innings.

    The Twins are lacking an ace, but I don't remember a twins team with this level of depth of both proven MLB arms, fringe arms, and minor league arms waiting in the wings.
    I do. It was 2011. Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn, Slowey, Duensing, with Swarzak, Hendriks in mix. Gibson was also very promising going into the season.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  7. #26
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    289
    Like
    4
    Liked 44 Times in 30 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    I'm on the side of thinking that Deduno has the ability to be an MLB starter.

    My concern is durability. In 10 professional seasons he's never pitched more than 150 innings. In 2012 he was on the DL for 45 days and finished the season with an eye injury. 2013 he started the season on the DL and finished the season having shoulder surgery. That's not a good trend.

  8. #27
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,152
    Like
    3
    Liked 180 Times in 107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    I don't think I've read any "cast Deduno aside" sentiment here -- some are skeptical, some want to stash him on the 60 day DL to start the year, but I don't think anyone has advocated he be DFA'ed or any such thing.

    That said, add me to the skeptic camp. The career low walk rate was awesome... the career low K rate, not so much. I've got no problem with making him the #5 starter if he's healthy, but if he winds up being your #2 starter performance-wise, you might have problems.

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    I do. It was 2011. Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn, Slowey, Duensing, with Swarzak, Hendriks in mix. Gibson was also very promising going into the season.
    This year: Nolasco, Hughes, Correia, Pelfrey, Worley, Deduno, Swarzak, Diamond, Deunsing, Albers, Gibson, Meyer, Johnson (I guess?)

    I forget about 2011 rotation. Maybe I have blocked that it out of my mind. Certainly more gifted at the top end and certainly a huge disappointment.

    The organizational depth this year is far better. After Baker went down, slowey happened, and the Blackburn and Liriano were terrible, what did we have?

  10. #29
    Banned Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    715
    Like
    82
    Liked 40 Times in 29 Posts
    Our favorite team has backed themselves into the too much starting pitching corner after 3 straight seasons of losing 90+ games. The FO has chosen to go with several familiar, veteran inning eaters for a season where a .500 record would be a blessing, awaiting several much anticipated top starting pitching prospects to filter into the rotation. To accumulate too much starting pitching, they did not add an albatross contract, nor did they touch the farm system. Said veteran inning eaters, may well be attractive trade chips at the next trade deadline and the one that follows. I have a hard time seeing the downside on all this.
    Last edited by howieramone; 12-16-2013 at 09:06 PM.

  11. These 5 users like howieramone's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Blackjack (12-17-2013), DocBauer (12-16-2013), Major Leauge Ready (12-16-2013), Tibs (12-16-2013), Zephrin (12-17-2013)

  12. #30
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,093
    Like
    99
    Liked 343 Times in 196 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Said veteran inning eaters, may well be attractive trade chips at the next trade deadline and the one that follows.
    Possible, but unlikely.

  13. #31
    Deduno and Albers were the Twins best starters statistically last year, Worley was behind everybody but Cole Devries. I hope Worley can improve this year but I'd have him behind Deduno, Diamond and Albers.

  14. #32
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephrin View Post
    This is an instance where Terry Ryan is in a bit of a pickle. Not adding Pelfrey means he's banking on a lot of ifs - if Deduno's shoulder is healthy, if Gibson can figure it out, if Meyer is ready to make the leap, if Diamond or Worley can have a light come on. Suddenly he is criticized for trotting out AAAA pitching and not giving us a chance to win. Signing Pelfrey opens him up to criticism that he is arbitrarily not giving the "young guys" a chance.

    After three consecutive years of significantly underachieving in the pitching department, I would rather see TR hedge this direction than the other. Too much good pitching is a problem that TR will happily take as a problem come June.
    hedge? ok ,I will accept that , but we couldnt hedge it with Hammel? why take Pelfrey again?
    or how about we already had #3-5 filled , and hedge with a #2 ?

  15. #33
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    230
    Like
    136
    Liked 58 Times in 38 Posts
    Like Florimon, Twins fans don't even know what they have in Deduno. The guy is awesome when he's healthy. He is a gamer. He doesn't go out there to nibble at corners and pitter patter around. He goes out there to dominate. He embraces the challenge in front of him. It's unfortunate that he's having shoulder problems, but he is the type of person we want on the Twins. Fans need to start watching the games instead of playing on their cell phones and looking into outer space, while the game is on.

    People who are placing Gibson and Worely in the starting line up and writing Deduno off of the team should feel embarrassed. The only thing Gibson and Worely proved last year was that they weren't good enough (yet?) to pitch in the Major Leagues, while Deduno proved that he can pitch on a big stage and dominate (WBC) and was arguably the Twins' best starting pitcher, while healthy in 2013.

  16. These 3 users like Reider's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Bark's Lounge (12-16-2013), Dman (12-17-2013), Hosken Bombo Disco (12-17-2013)

  17. #34
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,147
    Like
    379
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    But he's not found money... He's a living breathing Human Being who is working at his chosen profession and starting to see his hard work paid off. 4.44 ERA in 2012 wasn't overally special but he had his stellar moments and he was giving up less than a hit an inning.

    I remember discussions on Twins Daily saying "if he could just lower his walk rate by half"

    Well... He cut that walk rate in half!!!

    ERA 2.69 over 12 starts before getting hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    His GB% was pretty good and I watched each start. It was weak contact.


    The other more significant number you haven't mentioned about Deduno is his GB%. It wasn't just pretty good, it was awesome. If he qualified, he would be #1 in the AL and is #2 overall for SPs over 100 IPs. It's a nearly incredible ~60%...and we all know how many of those GBs are weak chops right back to Deduno or the Catcher. Justin Masterson was first in the AL at 58%, but he pitched nearly 190 innings....and there's the rub, can anyone envison Deduno pitching anywhere close to that number? Steamer is projecting a serious regression from 2013- only 77 IPs and a 4.65 ERA.

    Also, with the positives on his BB/9, came the negative with K/9 and K% which fell by 2% points. He also became more hittable, although not a big red flag, his H/9 increased from 7.9 to 8.8.

    Don't get me wrong, Deduno's games are can't-miss for me, you never know what might happen when he's on the mound, when he's on his game, he's virtually unhittable, and his expression of emotion is very refreshing...... but in the final analysis, his unorthodoxic approach does feel like a mirage, like Garrett Morris imitating a "berry-berry-good" Latin ballplayer, like found money.
    Last edited by jokin; 12-16-2013 at 11:50 PM.

  18. #35
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,147
    Like
    379
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I don't think I've read any "cast Deduno aside" sentiment here -- some are skeptical, some want to stash him on the 60 day DL to start the year, but I don't think anyone has advocated he be DFA'ed or any such thing.

    That said, add me to the skeptic camp. The career low walk rate was awesome... the career low K rate, not so much. I've got no problem with making him the #5 starter if he's healthy, but if he winds up being your #2 starter performance-wise, you might have problems.
    Can I be in 2 camps at once?

  19. #36
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,147
    Like
    379
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Said veteran inning eaters, may well be attractive trade chips at the next trade deadline and the one that follows. I have a hard time seeing the downside on all this.
    "Said" who?

    I don't see any of these "veteran innings eaters" being attractive trade chips. Nolasco, and to some extent for the next year at least, Hughes, are tied up in their contracts for too long. Pelfrey and Correia simply aren't talented enough for a team making a big push for a playoff spot (Correia became persona non grata @ playoff-hopeful Pitt, and the Mets had zero interest in retaining Pelfrey even though they were pitching starved going into 2013). The rest of the motley crew have too many question marks and warts for anyone to take a chance by offering much in the way of value in return.

  20. #37
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    109
    Like
    10
    Liked 15 Times in 9 Posts
    Last Year's 5th starter the opening week was either Pedro Hernandez or Devries. This year it will be Deduno if healthy. TR's approach is fine with me. The only pitchers to worry about for innings are Gibson and Meyer. They SHOULD have to force their way into the lineup. Not just give the minor leaguers chances when they are kinda, sorta, maybe, I hope they are ready.

  21. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Like Florimon, Twins fans don't even know what they have in Deduno. The guy is awesome when he's healthy. He is a gamer. He doesn't go out there to nibble at corners and pitter patter around. He goes out there to dominate. He embraces the challenge in front of him. It's unfortunate that he's having shoulder problems, but he is the type of person we want on the Twins. Fans need to start watching the games instead of playing on their cell phones and looking into outer space, while the game is on.

    People who are placing Gibson and Worely in the starting line up and writing Deduno off of the team should feel embarrassed. The only thing Gibson and Worely proved last year was that they weren't good enough (yet?) to pitch in the Major Leagues, while Deduno proved that he can pitch on a big stage and dominate (WBC) and was arguably the Twins' best starting pitcher, while healthy in 2013.
    I loved this. I will say what others are saying though. I don't think anyone is writing Deduno off the team. It's just a sense we've seen this movie before.. new guy comes in, shows flashes, gets hopes up, disappears. That feeling gets compounded when there's literally no one else producing or being developed. This year we've brought on Nolasco & Hughes and that's a good thing.

  22. #39
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    2,555
    Like
    88
    Liked 136 Times in 96 Posts
    Blog Entries
    26
    My main concern about Deduno is injury. While he may be able to throw as soon as this spring, I wonder if he'll have the special movement he had on pitches that he had before his injury. Frankly, I don't know his injury history prior to coming up to the Twins, but we've seen "minor" injuries sap the effectiveness of Worley and Diamond after they had been successful pitching in the big leagues.

  23. #40
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    230
    Like
    136
    Liked 58 Times in 38 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    I loved this. I will say what others are saying though. I don't think anyone is writing Deduno off the team. It's just a sense we've seen this movie before.. new guy comes in, shows flashes, gets hopes up, disappears.
    Deduno's talent isn't going to go away, just like Florimon's range and strong arm isn't going to disappear next year. If anything forces Deduno to take a step aside, it will be his health. If Deduno isn't able to keep up (e.g. durability wise) with the high pitch counts that are required of a starter, he could always be moved to the bullpen where he could continue doing great things without needing to worry about high pitch counts.

    And if his health prevents him from being able to perform at the MLB level, then I guess we all have no choice but to move on. But hopefully things work out one way or another for him.
    Last edited by Reider; 12-17-2013 at 06:54 AM.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.