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Thread: MLB votes to ban home plate collisions

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sssuperdave View Post
    This wasn't directed at me, but here's a list off the top of my head:

    Plays I think are more exciting than bowling over the catcher:

    • Suicide Squeeze
    • Triple Plays
    • Stealing Home
    • Grand Slams
    • Robbing Home Runs
    • Diving catches in the outfield
    • Gunning a runner down at the plate on a fly-out, even if the catcher doesn't get plowed into
    • Walkoff Home Runs


    Every pitch of these other baseball situations (not exactly plays) are more exciting to me than bowling over the catcher:

    • No-Hitters after the 7th inning
    • Bottom of the ninth down by 1 with a runner in scoring position
    • Game 7 of the world series


    Think of the 91 world series. Puckett's catch and home run in game 6, and every pitch of game 7 were more exciting that Harper getting plowed into. I don't even remember for sure who did the plowing - was it Lonnie Smith? Heck, I even liked the Kent Hrbek/Ron Gant controversy better. Oh, and Rick Aguilera pinch-hitting in game 3.

    I could go on, but I think it's obvious where I stand.
    Confusion------I think I meant "play at the plate" as the most exciting, many of which you listed. Not the collision. Which tends to make people's heart drop the moment before it happens. I'll take a good play at the plate (out or safe) over most dingers. Also good mention on Aggie's at bat in Game 3 (line out to center?) which was definitely a dramatic moment. Game 7 was full of exciting moments, none which involved a collision at the plate.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    Confusion------I think I meant "play at the plate" as the most exciting, many of which you listed. Not the collision. Which tends to make people's heart drop the moment before it happens. I'll take a good play at the plate (out or safe) over most dingers. Also good mention on Aggie's at bat in Game 3 (line out to center?) which was definitely a dramatic moment. Game 7 was full of exciting moments, none which involved a collision at the plate.
    Yes, everything in Game 7 is more exciting due to the context. A pop up to Pagliarulo had us all holding our breath. That wouldn't happen on June 4th.

    I love collisions. The bang-bang nature of the play combined with a brutal hit makes it exciting for me. If we are going to eliminate anything that could cause an injury, please eliminate throwing, sliding, running, swinging. Most of the concussions that take place are on foul tips not collisions at home plate.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Any change that improves player safety I think is a good one. And I wouldn't use the term that you do.

    It's been trending that way forever, BTW. If you think that the game is too soft, maybe we should take away the batting helmets, catchers' gear, and the barriers in front of the dugout.
    Players should also only be out if they get Dibbled.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    Yes, everything in Game 7 is more exciting due to the context. A pop up to Pagliarulo had us all holding our breath. That wouldn't happen on June 4th.

    I love collisions. The bang-bang nature of the play combined with a brutal hit makes it exciting for me. If we are going to eliminate anything that could cause an injury, please eliminate throwing, sliding, running, swinging. Most of the concussions that take place are on foul tips not collisions at home plate.
    Hmm.. not me, not so much. I think usually when a ball gets to the plate early enough, and a collision is coming, that a catcher can quick drop into a solid defensive posture and protect himself, and as long as he holds the ball the ump should give him the benefit of the doubt. But on those closer plays the catcher is still in motion fielding the ball or whatever, and not prepared to take that hit, which was the case in the Buster Posey play. (which should have been a swipe slide). The home plate collision is very much a desperation and instinct move on the runners part, who usually knows he's going to be out unless he can jar the ball free.

    To this point collisions have been "part of the game" which is what most players will say in an interview afterward. If MLB wants to reduce their occurrences to near zero, then hopefully they will present some specific rules and suggestions, instead of just agreeing to some vague "ban" against it. And you will still see foul tips and collisions between teammates in the field, so yeah.

  5. #25
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I love collisions. The bang-bang nature of the play combined with a brutal hit
    Thank you for summarizing my opposition to the play.

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  7. #26
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Put me in the column that says home plate collisions were the dumbest play in the game. Exciting? I suppose, but stupid. At every other base, it's runners' interference except home? The most exciting play in the NFL used to be the free shot a CB could take on a defenseless receiver. The smartest thing the NFL did was ban that.

    And I can say the Twins suffered as much as any franchise in this. Morneau's career was seriously disrupted by two such collisions. I wonder what might have been. In addition to the two HP collisions, the big one happened at second. But his head was already not right from the worst collision of his career, which caused a concussion and a bruised lung. The Twins lost their opportunity to have Thome moments in his only postseason with the team because of a stupid one. I could go on and on.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Put me in the column that says home plate collisions were the dumbest play in the game. Exciting? I suppose, but stupid. At every other base, it's runners' interference except home? The most exciting play in the NFL used to be the free shot a CB could take on a defenseless receiver. The smartest thing the NFL did was ban that.

    And I can say the Twins suffered as much as any franchise in this. Morneau's career was seriously disrupted by two such collisions. I wonder what might have been. In addition to the two HP collisions, the big one happened at second. But his head was already not right from the worst collision of his career, which caused a concussion and a bruised lung. The Twins lost their opportunity to have Thome moments in his only postseason with the team because of a stupid one. I could go on and on.
    The two bolded statements are highly contradictory. If plays like Morneau's at second are somehow "banned", the game as we know it, is over.

  9. #28
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The two bolded statements are highly contradictory. If plays like Morneau's at second are somehow "banned", the game as we know it, is over.
    There's a big difference between a hard slide at second and a home plate collision. A runner cannot go out of his way to "hit" the guy turning the double play. He can slide late as long as he can still touch the bag after the slide. If not, it's technically interference. Though perhaps it is not called as often as it should be. Also, unlike a catcher, the middle infielder can throw the ball and hit the runner if he doesn't get out of the way, and it's runners' interference. All the catcher can do is hold on to the ball for dear life.

    In Torii's infamous collision on Jamie Burke, he was three feet away from the plate when he crushed him. He had to get up and go over to the plate after Burke dropped the ball. It was a legal play.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  10. #29
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    My issue is how the rule is written, because I'm having trouble imagining how this gets written tht isn't awful and causes problems.

  11. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    If you can't do it at any other base, you shouldn't be able to do it at home. I was disappointed that the "neighborhood" force out at second will not be reviewable. I have always hated it. Part of baseball is the inches and split seconds. If you can't get the foot on the base in time, that is part of the play. Baseball was never supposed to be football.

  12. #31
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2oface View Post
    If you can't do it at any other base, you shouldn't be able to do it at home. I was disappointed that the "neighborhood" force out at second will not be reviewable. I have always hated it. Part of baseball is the inches and split seconds. If you can't get the foot on the base in time, that is part of the play. Baseball was never supposed to be football.
    What you could see as a side effect is the same the NFL has: more knee injuries.

  13. #32
    Senior Member Triple-A gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    What you could see as a side effect is the same the NFL has: more knee injuries.
    I'm not sure I see how. In football you still have to tackle the guy even though you can't hit him high. That really isn't an issue in baseball.

    I'm no baseball historian, but Bill James says Pete Rose is the one who popularized the football block to try to knock the ball out. That's still fairly recent history for baseball.

  14. #33
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gil4 View Post
    I'm not sure I see how. In football you still have to tackle the guy even though you can't hit him high. That really isn't an issue in baseball.

    I'm no baseball historian, but Bill James says Pete Rose is the one who popularized the football block to try to knock the ball out. That's still fairly recent history for baseball.
    I'm obviously speculating, but baserunners go harder into home than anywhere else. If the rule is just that they can't go high, they are going to slide aggressively low. With how catchers generally position themselves (squat, one leg out, etc) I could see a few wrecked knees that way too.

  15. #34
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm obviously speculating, but baserunners go harder into home than anywhere else. If the rule is just that they can't go high, they are going to slide aggressively low. With how catchers generally position themselves (squat, one leg out, etc) I could see a few wrecked knees that way too.
    I see that logic and you're right players definitely go harder into home than any other base, I'm just not sure players will go in harder low than they already do, it's not all that effective in trying to knock the ball out of the catchers grasp, as opposed to flat out running him over.

    No?

  16. #35
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Booo!

    I'll say it again. Booo!
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  17. #36
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    I see that logic and you're right players definitely go harder into home than any other base, I'm just not sure players will go in harder low than they already do, it's not all that effective in trying to knock the ball out of the catchers grasp, as opposed to flat out running him over.

    No?
    Hopefully, the wording will be key.

  18. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    I see that logic and you're right players definitely go harder into home than any other base, I'm just not sure players will go in harder low than they already do, it's not all that effective in trying to knock the ball out of the catchers grasp, as opposed to flat out running him over.

    No?
    The reason baserunners can go harder into home is that oversliding the base doesn't matter, as long as they touch it. At every other base a slide has the additional effect of slowing momentum as much as it is about avoiding a tag (see also: Ron Gant?).

    I really like that they are looking at the play that is the highest risk of injury baseball. It's not about making sure no one gets hurt ever -- it's about taking out a play/plays that are high risk of injury and don't make a lot of sense within the context of the game.

  19. #38
    Senior Member Triple-A gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    With how catchers generally position themselves (squat, one leg out, etc) I could see a few wrecked knees that way too.
    We haven't seen the rule yet, but there was some indication that blocking the plate would also be illegal. In football, the "go low" hits are head first, and it's harder to get lower than the knee that way. With a slide, the players are more likely the hit the shin area and knock the feet out from under the catcher, rather than buckle the knee back. Is there still the possibility for injury? Sure, but I think this will greatly reduce them.

  20. #39
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gil4 View Post
    We haven't seen the rule yet, but there was some indication that blocking the plate would also be illegal. In football, the "go low" hits are head first, and it's harder to get lower than the knee that way. With a slide, the players are more likely the hit the shin area and knock the feet out from under the catcher, rather than buckle the knee back. Is there still the possibility for injury? Sure, but I think this will greatly reduce them.
    It may, I'm not saying anything with certainty. But how the rule is written will be key. Players block other bases, the difference with home is what Alex said. Home plate is a different animal for a number of reasons. Can you prevent contact altogether? If not, aren't you just steering contact somewhere else ala football?

  21. #40

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