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Thread: Twins & SS Stephen Drew?

  1. #61
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    Florimon or Drew? Ok in 6 months who is gonna have trade value?
    Who is going to have both a positive O-WAR and D-WAR?
    Which guy is going to have to bat 9th? As for money left to spend , we have around 48-55 million more avalible If Jim Pohlads 50-52 % is the bench mark.

    If we are going to sign a pitcher it better be a #2-3 type starter, why up grade your 4th or 5 spot?, when you already have 5 pitchers who are 4s and 5s, get the everyday player who is a big upgrade over the player he is replacing...C,3rd,SS,O.F.

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  3. #62
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I'm torn here. Drew is clearly a massive upgrade to Florimon. He's at a position of need, and there's nothing in the system that is going to present itself as an upgrade in the near term (sorry, not that high on Santana). The money I don't think should be the issue, and he can hold down the fort for 3 years until a guy like Polcanco is ready.

    The draft pick in my opinion is a big deal. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of who the Twins have traditionally taken with that second round pick, but in terms of getting major leaguers out of the draft, the first couple picks are where it's going to happen. That pick can still get a high ceiling HS guy as it will come with a 7 figure bonus. I don't think it's a good idea to compare who the Twins have taken here of late, as you can look at every draft and find talent that was drafted at or after this position... The pick is a big deal.

    Overall, I'd probably prefer this signing over Arroyo, but I'm not going to be disappointed if they don't do it. I can see both sides of this. Probably the biggest thing I woudl do is see what SS are going to be free agents next year or the year after. If there's a better option available, I'd think long and hard about going after one at that time.

  4. #63
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Florimon or Drew? Ok in 6 months who is gonna have trade value?
    Jose Iglesias is a light hitting defensive superstar. He may have hit .300 last year but that wasn't anything expected by the scouts. He is still considered to be a light hitting defensive superstar.

    To acquire him from the Red Sox... He cost the Tigers Avisail Garcia... And the White Sox Jake Peavy.

    Pedro Florimon is 4 years older but they both have similar service time and will be arbitration eligible around the same time.

    Pedro Florimon is also a defensive superstar.

    Now Big If... But... If... Florimon has a year at the plate in the majors like he did in 2011 at AA (Which isn't out of the question).

    Pedro is Arb-eligible in 2016... His trade value will skyrocket.

    On the other hand Stephen Drew's trade value at 14 million a year is a big ?

    It should also be noted that Stephen Drew at 7 million per was traded to Oakland for a 17th Round Infielder out of Canisius.

    So to answer your question... I'm going with Pedro Florimon.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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  6. #64
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    The more I think about it, the more I want Drew. Shortstop is one of the only positions where the Twins have virtually no MiLB talent that is projectable.

    You can make the argument that the Twins shouldn't pick up an OF because of Arcia, Hicks, and Buxton.

    You can make the argument that the Twins shouldn't pick up a 3B because the ManBeastChild is coming.

    You can make the argument that the Twins shouldn't pick up a C because of Pinto.

    But SS, not so much. There's Florimon, a defensive specialist... And then Santana, who hasn't exactly lit the world on fire. He's a marginal prospect but not a guy you're going to build a franchise around. He hasn't posted an OPS of .750 since the Dominican Summer League in 2008.

    Outside of starting pitching, SS is the one position where the Twins can put a guy for 2-4 years and not have to worry about him blocking anyone. Given their payroll flexibility, this makes a hell of a lot of sense.

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  8. #65
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer amjgt's Avatar
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    Perfect 3 year stopgap to Trea Turner

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  10. #66
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    The guys on the Fangraphs chat last night are not in love with Drew.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  11. #67
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    Both the Mets and Redsox want to only offer a 2 year per mlbtraderumors so a 3 year offer should do the trick. I bet even at a lower AAV like 11 or 12 million per season.

  12. #68
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    The guys on the Fangraphs chat last night are not in love with Drew.....
    I'm not really in love with Drew, either... But given the available SS options every year, it's usually slim pickings. Sometimes, you just have to take what you can get.

  13. #69
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I just wish the guy didnt have a strong history of injuries and a soft attitude about them. That's the biggest drawback to me.

  14. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I just wish the guy didnt have a strong history of injuries and a soft attitude about them. That's the biggest drawback to me.
    JJ Hardy had the same rap on him, and now he's the love we lost.

  15. #71
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    JJ Hardy had the same rap on him, and now he's the love we lost.
    here he had that issue, but the Twins painted him that way. It wasn't an issue before coming here. With Drew a former team has publicly accused him of milking an injury. It gives me pause about investing in him.

  16. #72
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    here he had that issue, but the Twins painted him that way. It wasn't an issue before coming here. With Drew a former team has publicly accused him of milking an injury. It gives me pause about investing in him.
    Actually he had the same reputation when he was with the Brewers.

  17. #73
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Actually he had the same reputation when he was with the Brewers.
    Source? My understanding was that he was too streaky and was sent to their minors. Never remember anything about him being soft.

  18. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Source? My understanding was that he was too streaky and was sent to their minors. Never remember anything about him being soft.
    Brewers fans that I've spoken to around the time of the Hardy-Gomez trade. You don't have to take my word for it.

  19. #75
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Alcedes Escobar was ready to be promoted to Milwaukee. They didn't need or want Hardy.

    JJ had just hit .229 and was sent down during a horrible 2009 and then...

    The Twins gave up 4 years of control of Carlos Gomez to acquire him. Only to ship him off Hardy a year later.

    I still shake my head... I hated the trade of Gomez then and I hate it more now.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-11-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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  21. #76
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Brewers fans that I've spoken to around the time of the Hardy-Gomez trade. You don't have to take my word for it.
    I certainly don't. I lived in northern Illinois during his run there and followed the Brewers and never herd anything of the sort. His issues were purely performance. He just completely fell off a cliff in terms of performance and many of his peripherals were declining. Couple that with Alcides Escobar arriving soon and tht was their reasoning. He'll, the guy had consecutive 600 PA seasons before the year they demoted him. (Which fangraphs speculates was done for service time issues)

    So, yeah, that doesn't hold water.

  22. #77
    Senior Member Double-A Jdosen's Avatar
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    As a left-handed hitter who draws a significant amount of offensive value from his (relative) power (career .329 OBP compared to a career .435 SLG), I don't think the Twins and Target Field are an optimal fit for him. I can't see myself being too upset if the Twins were to sign him, as he is a good player, but I think it would be more prudent of the Twins to take the money it would cost to sign him and go after another starting pitcher, while letting Florimon provide similar value (albeit in a different manner) at a fraction of the cost.
    I just started the blog Troy Williamson's Hands which is about MN sports and whatever else I want to write--you can find it at http://troywilliamsonshands.blogspot.com/
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  23. #78
    Senior Member Double-A MWLFan's Avatar
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    I live in Wisconsin and JJ was under appreciated by the Brewers and the fan base as a whole. I attend quite a few Brewers games and JJ was thought of as a underacheiver and not a intergal part of the future for the Crew once his stats dipped. I don't think of him as being thought of as soft, but not a gamer or they kind of guy that gave 100%. He had some small injuries, some of which he played through, and also that played into that thought pattern among the patrons of the Miller Mausoleum. Was it a fair assesment, no. But fans are not tasked to be fair. And Escobar was ready as has been stated before, so out with old and in with the shiny new SS. What the FO opinion of him, I am not sure. But I think they felt Escobar was the future and not JJ.

  24. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Jose Iglesias is a light hitting defensive superstar. He may have hit .300 last year but that wasn't anything expected by the scouts. He is still considered to be a light hitting defensive superstar.

    To acquire him from the Red Sox... He cost the Tigers Avisail Garcia... And the White Sox Jake Peavy.

    Pedro Florimon is 4 years older but they both have similar service time and will be arbitration eligible around the same time.

    Pedro Florimon is also a defensive superstar.

    Now Big If... But... If... Florimon has a year at the plate in the majors like he did in 2011 at AA (Which isn't out of the question).

    Pedro is Arb-eligible in 2016... His trade value will skyrocket.

    On the other hand Stephen Drew's trade value at 14 million a year is a big ?

    It should also be noted that Stephen Drew at 7 million per was traded to Oakland for a 17th Round Infielder out of Canisius.

    So to answer your question... I'm going with Pedro Florimon.
    I was on the fence with my weight equally distributed until I read this post. I also share DieHardTwinsFan’s opinion on the pick. Yes, we have not landed a great players with similar picks but you can’t just look at our history. There have been many good players drafted in similar positions including Taijuan Walker. He was the 43rd pick.

    There are a lot of goods points on this thread in favor and against. I had to think it over for awhile but for me it comes down to objectives. Drew is definitely an upgrade at the moment. He would help getting us back to around 500 but he is not part of the next contender. We would be selling low. Even if we keep Florimon, we prohibit the growth that could provide much greater value. The draft pick also has the potential to be very valuable to future contention. The odds on both are pretty long but given the best case scenario for the alternative is respectability, I think I like the idea of retaining this potential.

    My vote is wait a year and use the $12M we would have spent on Drew + another 10-12M for a true front of the rotation starter.
    Last edited by Major Leauge Ready; 12-11-2013 at 12:07 PM.

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  26. #80
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    If Florimon regresses a little say to a .550 OPS next year there would be a .150-.200 OPS differential between Drew and Florimon. that is possible as Florimon got worse hitting as the season went on. I do like that he is an elite defender but am concerned about the bat and the bats on the team as a whole. The big drawback for me on Drew is he doesn't help the strikeout problem we have. But I would sign him easily to a 3 year 30-36 million contract as Drew is still a plus defender and we will still have Florimon as a back up.

    Another option though is to trade for one of Arizona's SS who are available for pitching....Gibson for Didorious...

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