Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 76 of 76

Thread: What Happened to the Twins? by Elliot Mann

  1. #61
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,693
    Like
    157
    Liked 614 Times in 342 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    The Twins have really run into some **** luck when you get right down to it.

    2006 they were a stellar team... And then Liriano goes down.

    2010 they were a stellar team... And then Morneau goes down, Ramos gets injured and hurts his trade value.

    Either one of those seasons, a healthy Twins team is a dominant force in the AL. It doesn't mean they would have won it all but it means they would have had a hell of a lot better shot at winning it all, that's for sure.
    Dont forget Radke in 2006 pitching with his left arm basically and Shannon Stewart dying off.

    But what Smith did going into 2010 and that team looked special. Those two terrible breaks have maybe more to do with where we're at then either Ryan or Smiths blunders. Totally changed the direction of the franchise.

  2. #62
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,580
    Like
    828
    Liked 815 Times in 518 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    If an organization was painting Smith to be the fall guy and patsy from the get-go, they wouldn't have kept him around after he was removed from the GM position. Why face ridicule for keeping a guy who the fan base thinks was a failure, a fan base whose main complaint is probably that the Twins are run like an Ol' Boys Club instead of a business? Following the logic breadcrumbs doesn't lead to a situation where Smith is still gainfully employed by this organization if they intentionally put him in the position of patsy. The Twins are not the Illuminati. You have to go pretty down the Conspiracy Theory rabbit hole to ignore all the contradictory evidence of him being set up to fail as some sort of high-level plot to... do something. I'm not quite clear on that part of the conspiracy.
    Sure, they've kept Smith around, it's what they do. But, as much as he's been heard from ever since, he may as well have been locked up in the basement or marooned on an island on The Lake of the Woods.

    And there's absolutely no need for some ridiculous Conspiracy Theory. When a GM is allowed to appoint/annoint his successor, the following (usually not very good) results can simply be chalked up to human nature (there are whole business courses being taught on the pitfalls involved in Management Successor Planning).

  3. #63
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,024
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,521 Times in 795 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    And there's absolutely no need for some ridiculous Conspiracy Theory. When a GM is allowed to appoint/annoint his successor, the following (usually not very good) results can simply be chalked up to human nature (there are whole business courses being taught on the pitfalls involved in Management Successor Planning).
    Fair enough. Outside voices aren't always better but they're not necessarily worse, either. Putting a non-baseball guy, appointed by the previous GM, in charge of a baseball franchise was not the smartest move of the past decade, that's for sure.

  4. This user likes Brock Beauchamp's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    johnnydakota (12-11-2013)

  5. #64
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,024
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,521 Times in 795 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Dont forget Radke in 2006 pitching with his left arm basically and Shannon Stewart dying off.
    I completely forgot about Radke. I knew there was another guy who went down and/or struggled on that 2006 squad but couldn't remember who it was. I can't believe I forgot about Brad basically Iron Manning it through every start in August and September.

  6. #65
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    The Twins Organization very rarely removes or fires anyone. They are seemingly loyal to a fault.

    Bill Smith was removed from the position.

    I have no inside knowledge but the fact that Bill Smith was removed when people rarely are... Tells me that... It was determined by the Twins that Bill Smith should not continue in the GM position for some reason.

    I don't know about anyone else but that speaks pretty loudly to me.
    To me it speaks louder that the Twins brought him back....

  7. #66
    My Dad and I talked with Bill Smith for a long time at Twinsfest before the 2005 season on the dome floor. We asked about 2nd and 3rd base going into that season. He told is that he thought Luis Rivas was about to emerge as an All-Star second baseman and Michael Cuddyer was not going to have any issue holding down 3B on a daily basis.

  8. #67
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    If an organization was painting Smith to be the fall guy and patsy from the get-go, they wouldn't have kept him around after he was removed from the GM position. Why face ridicule for keeping a guy who the fan base thinks was a failure, a fan base whose main complaint is probably that the Twins are run like an Ol' Boys Club instead of a business? Following the logic breadcrumbs doesn't lead to a situation where Smith is still gainfully employed by this organization if they intentionally put him in the position of patsy. The Twins are not the Illuminati. You have to go pretty down the Conspiracy Theory rabbit hole to ignore all the contradictory evidence of him being set up to fail as some sort of high-level plot to... do something. I'm not quite clear on that part of the conspiracy.
    They probally kept him around so they could controll what he said , Kinda hard to bash your boss and keep getting paid...

  9. #68
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,024
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,521 Times in 795 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    They probally kept him around so they could controll what he said , Kinda hard to bash your boss and keep getting paid...
    Given that Smith is a senior exec and almost surely paid well into the six digits, that's a pretty expensive fee to pay for someone's silence.

    Conspiracy theories often fall apart when simple logic is applied to them.

  10. #69
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,179
    Like
    1,245
    Liked 1,199 Times in 697 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    They probally kept him around so they could controll what he said , Kinda hard to bash your boss and keep getting paid...
    I don't know about that. In his new position, wasn't he doing things like negotiating for and renovating the remodeling at Hammond Stadium? Things that would be more on the business side than the baseball side?

    It is probably a position for which his talents are well-suited. He and his family got to stay in the Twins Cities. And, while I'm sure that his change in job status wasn't comfortable for any of them, there were probably factors that helped compensate (he would have been a failed GM whether he stayed with the team or went elsewhere).

    The incongruity in all of this is that he was the one selected to be the new GM in the first place. I go back and read the articles from when his promotion was first announced and still can't get a feel for why he was the one selected.

  11. #70
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
    Posts
    8,574
    Like
    2,585
    Liked 3,201 Times in 1,701 Posts
    Blog Entries
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Given that Smith is a senior exec and almost surely paid well into the six digits, that's a pretty expensive fee to pay for someone's silence.

    Conspiracy theories often fall apart when simple logic is applied to them.
    It's not like Smith forgot all his previous front-office skills when he took the GM job. He's probably worth at least some large fraction of whatever they're paying him now, and we're speculating only on any excess. I don't look at it as silence money, exactly, but there could be an element of that in the overall decision to offer him a new position, combined with a genuine desire for his talents/services and a genuine desire to show loyalty to a good organization man.

    The thinking could have gone as "in addition to it being the right thing to do for Bill, it potentially spares us any controversy if he's interviewed someday and chooses his words undiplomatically...."

  12. #71
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    595
    Like
    10
    Liked 29 Times in 25 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Sure, they've kept Smith around, it's what they do. But, as much as he's been heard from ever since, he may as well have been locked up in the basement or marooned on an island on The Lake of the Woods.

    And there's absolutely no need for some ridiculous Conspiracy Theory. When a GM is allowed to appoint/annoint his successor, the following (usually not very good) results can simply be chalked up to human nature (there are whole business courses being taught on the pitfalls involved in Management Successor Planning).
    IIRC when they hired Smith people said who is that. Returning to a former role would take one back out of the spotlught not to be heard from.

  13. #72
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    8,672
    Like
    4,726
    Liked 2,206 Times in 1,243 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    To me it speaks louder that the Twins brought him back....
    It kinda does... In between the lines... It tells me that he has skills that somebody important likes.

    Disclaimer: I have no idea what Bill Smith is good at or bad at. I've never met him personally... I don't know anyone inside the Twins FO walls... I'm just making assumptions based upon actions made publicly by the Twins and relating them to work environments that I'm familiar with.

    My guess is that he is Terry Ryan's guy and still is.

    Continuing to guess... Terry Ryan wants to step down. He recommends his guy for his replacement. If he doesn't recommend his guy as his replacement. Someone from the outside could be brought in and that guy could bring in his own guys. Recommending someone he trusts like Bill Smith makes sense in that regard for not only Bill Smith but everyone else.

    If he doesn't recommend Bill Smith or someone from his staff... His staff could end up on the street... Now his retirement has become an employment issue for the people he left behind...

    And... It doesn't look good for those working for you. I liked you enough to keep you around all these years but I don't like you enough to replace me. Your staff should be able to replace you or you gotta get new staff.

    Still guessing... There is very little turnover in the Twins front office. This tells me that Terry Ryan is supportive of his people. Still guessing... When he left he protected his people with Bill Smith and when Bill didn't work out... he came back and protecting his people may be why he came back... Just a guess... But Terry Ryan did want to retire and he did...He's back for a reason.

    Terry could you come back? Bill isn't working out!

    If Terry doesn't come back. They bring in someone else and everybody is exposed to the new guy bringing in new guys.

    It can be argued weather this is a healthy way to run an organization but personally... I like it... If my guesses are right... Terry Ryan is exactly the type of guy I'd like to work for. A guy who takes responsibility for the team and the people who work for him.

    Bill Smith I assume he was good at something that suggested promotion. Once promoted... He may not have been as good at the new role... No need to throw that away... Just put him back to what he was good at before.

    I also don't believe Bill Smith was a puppet. I don't think Terry Ryan was lurking in the shadows making the decisions while retired. What's the sense in being retired if that's the case.

    Bill Smith was handed the reins... He was the GM... He made the final calls.

    Just guesses but they make sense to me.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-11-2013 at 02:31 PM.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

  14. This user likes Riverbrian's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    ericchri (12-11-2013)

  15. #73
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I don't know about that. In his new position, wasn't he doing things like negotiating for and renovating the remodeling at Hammond Stadium? Things that would be more on the business side than the baseball side?

    It is probably a position for which his talents are well-suited. He and his family got to stay in the Twins Cities. And, while I'm sure that his change in job status wasn't comfortable for any of them, there were probably factors that helped compensate (he would have been a failed GM whether he stayed with the team or went elsewhere).

    The incongruity in all of this is that he was the one selected to be the new GM in the first place. I go back and read the articles from when his promotion was first announced and still can't get a feel for why he was the one selected.
    He was hand picked by Terry , but with it came less authority, less power , they transfered some of it to Baseball people,inside the Org.

  16. #74
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    121
    Like
    23
    Liked 33 Times in 27 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thrylos reminds us of the infamous decision to dump Hardy after 2010 because Gardy wanted the team to be faster and then summarily plugged in the woeful Nishioka into the SS spot.

    I think this was a watershed moment for the Twins. In 2010 they won 94 games and had probably the best team the Twins will ever assemble, yet they were humiliated once again in the playoffs by the Yankees. There was a sense of desperation among fans, coaches, and the Front Office. In other words, we all share the blame for what happened next). The Twins had to get better, or else.

    We could have stood pat and won during the regular season but again been weak against any stellar team with three good starting pitchers in the playoffs. The decision was made to gamble, to try to make the team better at once. Nishioka.

    The team's fortune and reputation began to plummet at once, and soon enough Smith was gone and Ryan was back trying to fix the motor.
    Last edited by ScrapTheNickname; 12-11-2013 at 02:42 PM.

  17. #75
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    8,672
    Like
    4,726
    Liked 2,206 Times in 1,243 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    They probally kept him around so they could controll what he said , Kinda hard to bash your boss and keep getting paid...
    I gotta say no way to this.

    If he wants to be employed in baseball for another organization.

    It's a small community... He won't get a job if he lobs hand grenades while walking out the door. Nobody wants that type of guy. No money would be needed for that but just in case... The contracts signed do come with confidentiality agreements.

    This makes the current Seattle situation so bizarre.

    Seriously... If a guy is a great car salesmen and gets promoted to sales manager based on his car sales skills.

    If the guy then fails at the management position... Does it make sense to just throw the baby out with the bath water.

    He was a great car salesmen before... If he's willing to return to that role. Why bounce him? Sounds like you lose a great car salesmen because he was a bad sales manager.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-11-2013 at 02:41 PM.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

  18. #76
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Given that Smith is a senior exec and almost surely paid well into the six digits, that's a pretty expensive fee to pay for someone's silence.

    Conspiracy theories often fall apart when simple logic is applied to them.
    Simplest answers are often the truth, as for logic it is hard to believe it when 1 is so decidely bias. Do I believe that the Twins said look heres money dont talk , NO...But Me thinks that bringing him back takes some of the sting out of it and allows the Org. to controll some of the things he could say publicly

  19. This user likes johnnydakota's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    ashburyjohn (12-12-2013)

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.