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Thread: Article: Rumor Mill Round-Up: 12/9

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapTheNickname View Post
    Buck seems to be just below average defender (dwar slightly minus and throws out runners in the last three years at league average but over his career is 3% below league average).

    *Perhaps Twins Daily could run an article on dwar and rf to make these stats more useful. I can read them but I don't necessarily understand their true relevance.
    dWAR for catchers is still one of the hardest thing to quantify. Pitch framing hasn't been added to their value, although that should be coming soon.

    Then you have to think about the catcher's ability to call a game and manage a pitching staff. Unfortunately, even though we know there is value, it is impossible to quantify. But you can just imagine how much more value Yadier Molina would provide over a Josmil Pinto, in this aspect of the game.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    He doesn't need a mentor, he needs AAA
    I tried AA but i got lost after 5 steps

  4. #43
    I don't get the "Buck to Minnesota" rumors. First of all, Joe Buck isn't even a catcher, it's Tim McCarver; Joe Buck is a play-by-play announcer. And Secondly, Tim McCarver is way past his prime at 72. If they are looking for an "old-timer" catcher, I'd suggest Bench.

    Also, I'd like to see Garza back in Minny.

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  6. #44
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    I wonder if they are willing to DFA Hendricks, Albers, and Diamond while taking whatever they can get. Does not seem like TR. Could it be they have something already in place to move one or more of the above for prospects that are a couple years away. That seems like a viable scenario. There must be something else going on. It should be an interesting couple of weeks. Man, I hope they don't give Arroyo 3 years.
    Yeah that goes back to my first post, I'm a bit confused as to what the endgame is. Especially since none of these starters project well as a conversion to the bullpen. But you're right, it doesn't sound like Ryan.

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  8. #45
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP3700 View Post
    dWAR for catchers is still one of the hardest thing to quantify. Pitch framing hasn't been added to their value, although that should be coming soon.

    Then you have to think about the catcher's ability to call a game and manage a pitching staff. Unfortunately, even though we know there is value, it is impossible to quantify. But you can just imagine how much more value Yadier Molina would provide over a Josmil Pinto, in this aspect of the game.
    I really like these thoughts. I know baseball is a game of numbers and measurements. And perhaps I am just too old school, but while I find some of today's new measurement tools interesting, and sometimes useful to be sure, I believe it's very hard to quantify certain things. Using new-age numbers on a C for instance; caught stealing isn't entirely reflective of a C's full ability. It is also a reflection of number of attempts, number of runners on base, and the staff in question and their ability to hold runners. Even what is thrown. A staff that throws harder or softer as a group may allow said C to throw more men out, for instance. A more experienced staff may hold runners on better.

    I think there is real value in a solid C that can't always be quantified by these new statistics. Is pitch framing a true tell-all? Is it a tried and true quantified? I have some doubts about this. A quality defensive C is a lot like a basketball PG or the center of an offensive line, how do they make calls, how do they lead the team? A quality C is like that. Do they call a good game, set a solid target, help run the defense, collect the pitcher when he slips out of his groove. There aren't really an stats for those kinds of things.

    That being said, the Twins front office, scouts, coaches and even players probably have a lot better idea on those precepts than I do, or most of us. I don't know that Buck would be a bad signing, he does have some pop, but his offense does have some measure ales I'm not thrilled with. And everything eve said about Molina is very positive defensively, game calling, etc. And I think I like that idea more. Isn't Hernandez also available? And one thing I like about a signing of either of those two is the are Latin. The one thing I feel the Twins are missing out on is a strong Latino coach on staff. Or in this case, possibly a Latino veteran to work with younger players, as well as Pinto.

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  10. #46
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    As to a possible signing of Arroyo, I have a few thoughts there as well.

    The first being, I am highly in favor of adding a quality LHSP to our mix. Which is why I find a possible trade with the A's for Anderson so intriguing if we don't pay through the nose. After all, despite talent and real potential, there is recent track record, injury affecting such, as well as contract. As such, there is risk involved, as well as potential high reward, but it has t be measured, and the cost in minor talent simply can't be too great or I'd pass. A flyer on Johan, I think, is not only intriguing, but also a low risk and decent reward. Not going to say high reward because I simply think that ship has sailed.

    Secondly, I was against signing Arroyo as a primary signing. He really isn't that any longer. The solid, and potentially very good Nolasco and even younger and tantalizing Hughes have taken care of that. But depth of any kind, especially starting pitching, is always a good thing for many reasons, including injury, poor performance, competition, and just giving yourself a chance to legitimately win every day. Now, Arroyo at 2 years, or cheaper and easier or take or buy out 3rd year, provides us with that. Even at age 37, he proved himself to be a solid SP. Even if you allow a raise in ERA of say half a run per game moving t the AL, you still have him pretty much at his career mark of 4.19ish. He's allowed about a hit per inning in his career, and despite modest stuff, has maintained a career K/BB ratio of 2.37-1. He's also averaged 30 plus starts and 200 innings per year. Even with some regression, those are solid and dependable numbers, and better that most of what we've seen trotted out to the mound the past couple of years.

    Point number three, if we sign him, and we have the finances to do so, it pushes Correia to #4 in the rotation, or further, depending on the health and performances of Gibson, Deduno, Worley and Diamond. It might even make Correia immediately tradeable for additional talent. And that further depth in our rotation does nothing to stymie the progress of Meyer or May in any way as Arroyo will not be long term, and one way or another, Correia is gone after this year. And I will state again for the record, while I have the utmost confidence in Gibson, and his future, it wouldn't be the worst thing if he began the year in AAA. Not saying I want him to, or that he will, but last season was his first year following TJ surgery. And we all know it can take a little time to get endurance and feel back for your pitches. I know we all hate the setback Gibson had, we are all very anxious for him to flex his talent, no more so than the Twins and he himself, and reports last season had him not only feeling better than ever, but throwing as hard or harder than ever. But would a month or so to start the season pitching every fifth day instead of being passed over at the MLB level be such a bad thing in the long run?

    Lastly, I just have to say, isn't it refreshing, and a bit odd at the same time, that there is any consternation amongst us fans that our Twins might be signing a THIRD proven, quality FA starting pitcher to add to our staff?

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  12. #47
    Not many rumors in this thread.

  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta Shearing View Post
    Not many rumors in this thread.
    Outside of Arroyo there were not a lot of Twins rumors today. Heck, after the abnormally active weeks heading up to the Winter Meetings it would surprise me if this is a very boring week.

  14. #49
    "It might even make Correia immediately tradeable for additional talent."

    I'll give you (24) 1989 Gary Sheffield Donruss Rated Rookie cards and an unopened 1894 Topps (20) card pack, pink dried up bubble gum stick included, for Kevin Correia.
    #likelytalentavailableforyouroverpaidcrappystarter imeaninningseater
    Last edited by spoofbonser; 12-09-2013 at 09:25 PM.

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  16. #50
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    1894 Tops pack? I'm in. Can't wait to put that old gum in my mouth!!

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  18. #51
    Senior Member Triple-A B Richard's Avatar
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    Per MLB Trade Rumors: "Twins in, Orioles out on Rajai Davis."

    Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...ring-deal.html

    Apparently we are willing to commit multiple years to Rajai, Orioles no longer in the bidding.
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  19. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Richard View Post
    Per MLB Trade Rumors: "Twins in, Orioles out on Rajai Davis."

    Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...ring-deal.html

    Apparently we are willing to commit multiple years to Rajai, Orioles no longer in the bidding.
    I like this. He hits lefties very well and is a good pinch runner.

    Perfect 4th outfielder for the right price.

  20. #53
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Rajai Davis is probably our starting LF and lead-off hitter is my guess.

  21. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by drock2190 View Post
    I like this. He hits lefties very well and is a good pinch runner.

    Perfect 4th outfielder for the right price.
    What is the price? He made $2.5m each of the past two years. Seems like an extravagant insurance policy to safeguard against failures by Willingham, Presley, Arcia, Hicks, Mastriano, Parmelee, Colabello, et al.

  22. #55
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    About various rumors:

    Now I like Arroyo, but not three years. I would rather overpay for one year with an option, and hope he does well to be traded at the deadline (Correia too).

    John Buck. I have zero interest in him. It's as bad as Navarro. Give the job to Pinto and Herrmann.

    Davis. I don't like it unless: Willingham is seriously being shopped, or the Twins are paying to get Clete Thomas+++ instead of hoping on Clete Thomas types, or Mastro is going to be DFAed (and the last two have to be taken together, actually). He's fast and steals bases, but he is just a terrible leadoff option. Probably worse than Presley in that regard. But I am one who thinks they should have Hicks starting in CF and leading off against lefties, so who the hell am I to judge?

  23. #56
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Rajai is a .294 lifetime hitter against Lefties...
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ear=Career&t=b

    He's a top 10 base stealer in MLB.

    For $2.5 Mil? Absolutely.

    He actually had positive dWAR last year too.

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  25. #57
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    With still being interested in another SP & now Davis too. It seems like they are intent on the likes of Gibson, Meyer, Hicks, & Parmelee spending another year at AAA. Hoping the players to force the issue with their play. Only Pinto really showed he was ready to at least start the year in the majors.

    I like Davis as a CF with Pressly moving to LF. Davis for some reason LF has been his worst position by far defensively. Arcia's your RF with Hammer the full time DH.

    Bucks role maybe overrated from a production state. Having a vet to work with him on the advance scouting, working with the SP game plan, setting up the right routines etc all those little things that can really help with the C position especially can't hurt if you have the $. Pinto could really benefit from that. I also think that is a role they should put on Mauer though.
    Last edited by Trevor0333; 12-09-2013 at 10:54 PM.

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  27. #58
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Shane, right there with you on Pinto and Herrmann at C. Not only for the future, but honestly, what out there is better? Someone who can't hit and is at the end of their career, or a couple of talented youngsters, one who seemingly can hit, and another who has teased and shown enough to think he can.

    I think Mastro and Presley are solid defensively, and can form an OK platoon until Buxton arrives. Not sure about Mastro regaining what he showed us a year ago though, which is why I like the Davis signing.

    ALL in favor of Hicks in CF next year. Just not sure he's ready for lead off, or a portion of it. Love to be proven wrong.

  28. #59
    If Davis is signed, then I believe Doumit should be on his way out. Davis improves our OF defense which we desperately need. Parmelee is the big question though. He likely spends some time in the OF and pinch-hits for the likes of Florimon, Presley and Davis. I don't think we have the playing time left to see if he develops further. I think he has to take his bench role and will have to take advantage of any playing time due to injuries and the like if he wants to prove himself.

    If Doumit is kept, Parmelee likely has no spot on the team. If Doumit really isn't catching anymore, then it's even more easy to prefer Parmelee as the bench option.

  29. #60
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Rajai Davis... We need speed and he has it. Bring him to Minnesota is what my brain is thinking.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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