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Thread: The Twins DFA Liam Hendriks

  1. #61
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    I think TR is finally coming around to the theory that strike outs from a pitcher do matter and that it adds a tremendous amount of value. I agree with several posters who have said most teams already have or can easily find a Hendricks on their roster so his value is low. That doesn't mean that some team couldn't turn him around and make him better but odds are he is what he is.

  2. #62
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Why do people think Ryan doesn't value strikeouts? He drafted Scott Baker, Matt Garza, Johan Santana, and his bullpens have always done a solid job of striking out batters.

    The deficiency has been money and talent, not an overwhelming desire for contact pitchers. He has drafted poorly at times (meaning the Twins have the honor of throwing #6 starters in the rotation for the past several years) and he either didn't have the money or refused to spend it to pick up strikeout pitchers. I don't think there's ever been a question that he prefers guys who can miss bats.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Why do people think Ryan doesn't value strikeouts? He drafted Scott Baker, Matt Garza, Johan Santana, and his bullpens have always done a solid job of striking out batters.

    The deficiency has been money and talent, not an overwhelming desire for contact pitchers. He has drafted poorly at times (meaning the Twins have the honor of throwing #6 starters in the rotation for the past several years) and he either didn't have the money or refused to spend it to pick up strikeout pitchers. I don't think there's ever been a question that he prefers guys who can miss bats.
    I am sure you are correct that he isn't adverse to strikeout pitchers and I probably overstated or incorrectly assumed some things. The general idea behind my poorly worded post is that it seems we always have number 4 or 5 starters that can pitch, but it seemed that we rarely drafted power arms due to the high risk reward involved. I think that for the most part we got guys that have good control but don't necessarily strike out a lot of people. Again it appears to me that recently the Twins have been more like other organizations in looking for more power arms. At least that is my perception.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Why do people think Ryan doesn't value strikeouts? He drafted Scott Baker, Matt Garza, Johan Santana, and his bullpens have always done a solid job of striking out batters.

    The deficiency has been money and talent, not an overwhelming desire for contact pitchers. He has drafted poorly at times (meaning the Twins have the honor of throwing #6 starters in the rotation for the past several years) and he either didn't have the money or refused to spend it to pick up strikeout pitchers. I don't think there's ever been a question that he prefers guys who can miss bats.
    I agree with this. The Twins have always drafted and tried to acquire guys who throw hard and miss bats. They drafted Shooter Hunt, Jesse Crain, and a number of other hard throwers not mentioned above. They traded for Nathan and Liriano. They often draft high school kids late in the draft who might develop velocity like Hermsen. Some of these draft choices work out, some do not. They also draft guys or sign international guys with a good feel for pitching like Slowey, Hendriks and Radke. Some work out, some do not.

    Right now, it looks maybe, the Twins are in a bit of up cycle where there are a number of hard throwing kids who miss bats in the system. Some are progressing thru the system and might work out. There are also some who don't throw so hard moving thru the system and some of them might work out as well.

    I don't think the Twins are just looking for one type of pitcher when they are drafting, signing international kids, or trading.

  5. #65
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I think the perception comes from their historic inability to strike people out and the fact that they are far and away the leaders in that. It's reasonable to conclude that some sort of strategy was at work to be THAT bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think the perception comes from their historic inability to strike people out and the fact that they are far and away the leaders in that. It's reasonable to conclude that some sort of strategy was at work to be THAT bad.
    Thanks for understanding my mindset but I can see now that I am somewhat off base in my assumptions.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think the perception comes from their historic inability to strike people out and the fact that they are far and away the leaders in that. It's reasonable to conclude that some sort of strategy was at work to be THAT bad.
    Yes I agree. I don't think the Twins are against strike outs, but they may be poor at evaluating who may have this ability at the MLB level. Perhaps the biggest issue is that they value control more than they value the ability to miss bats. One could argue this is a correct philosophy, but then the issue is that theTwins just can't draft or develop guys who can miss bats and avoid walks.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 12-07-2013 at 12:58 AM.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Yes I agree. I don't think the Twins are against strike outs, but they may be poor at evaluating who may have this ability at the MLB level. Perhaps the biggest issue is that they value control more than they value the ability to miss bats. One could argue this is a correct philosophy, but then the issue is that theTwins just can't draft or develop guys who can miss bats and avoid walks.
    Probably true to some extent, but I also think it's that they try (tried?) to go for cost efficient pitchers as well and strikeout pitchers often don't fit that. As you point out, since they like control, strikeout pitchers who also have good control are going to be very expensive. The second part of that was they seemed to try and get college pitchers who could help them sooner in the majors rather than later and that may have limited their draft choices when they were picking later in the round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Probably true to some extent, but I also think it's that they try (tried?) to go for cost efficient pitchers as well and strikeout pitchers often don't fit that. As you point out, since they like control, strikeout pitchers who also have good control are going to be very expensive. The second part of that was they seemed to try and get college pitchers who could help them sooner in the majors rather than later and that may have limited their draft choices when they were picking later in the round.
    It may not be a dislike of strikeouts per se, but TR gave Joe Mays a big contract despite some fairly alarming K rate drops. He also counted on Diamond pretty heavily after 2012, probably passing on some FA because of him, although I understand we were desperate by that point.

    And other factors were at play, but Smith traded their best homegrown K guy in a while (Garza) and essentially replaced him in the rotation with Blackburn, who he also later extended Joe Mays style.

    It was certainly a good play to nab Lohse and Silva fairly cheaply, but it does seem the Twins were a bit too eager at times to commit to low-K guys at the MLB level.

  11. #70
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Truth be told, I don't too upset about Hendricks. I do think that they should have jettisoned a guy like Albers prior to Hendricks, but at this point, the odds of Hendricks being anything more than an emergency callup/short term sub at the ML level is rare. I get that he's young, and up to 2012 seemed to be a pretty good minor league pitcher, but at this point I'm not sure he's going to have a major league career.

  12. #71
    2-13 w/ 6.06 ERA in 28 starts over 3 yrs.....nice tryout....good luck elsewhere.....

  13. #72
    Not all prospects pan out. Hendricks is no longer a prospect.
    There are other pitchers on the roster who have a much better track record.
    He is obviously behind all the other pitchers on the roster and is being squeezed out by the younger players coming up through the system.
    He had his window to make an impression. It was awful. He won't have enough time to improve before the new prospects come up and pass him.

  14. #73
    Senior Member Double-A iTwins's Avatar
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    I was always a big Hendriks fan, so I'm bummed to see him go, but I can understand why the Twins made the move. The roster is changing and the Twins can't afford to give a spot to a guy who is still trying to work out how to pitch in the big leagues. I hope he clears waivers and stays in Rochester. I think he has the talent to be a good long reliever / bullpen arm, he just needs to develop the confidence to pitch to major league hitters (having a better out pitch wouldn't hurt either...)

    Best of luck wherever you land, Liam.

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  16. #74
    Junior Member Rookie SouthDakotaFarmer's Avatar
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    The upside Hendricks has/had was far to high. He has started 28 times, but sometimes it takes guys a little longer to translate their minor league success. What Hendricks may lack in confidence. Why wouldn't we let a guy like Mastro go? Lower power, speedy center fielders are all over the place. Then again, so are pitchers with career 6.0+ ERA....

  17. #75
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iTwins View Post
    The roster is changing and the Twins can't afford to give a spot to a guy who is still trying to work out how to pitch in the big leagues. I hope he clears waivers and stays in Rochester. I think he has the talent to be a good long reliever / bullpen arm, he just needs to develop the confidence to pitch to major league hitters.
    This was actually what I predicted to Happen with Hendricks. Send him back to AAA to convert to a reliever. Same for DeVries and PJ Walters whatever club they end up with next year. We gave them a shot and it's time to move on. Really hoping the same is not said of Mays and Gibson in a year or two...

  18. #76
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthDakotaFarmer View Post
    The upside Hendricks has/had was far to high. He has started 28 times, but sometimes it takes guys a little longer to translate their minor league success. What Hendricks may lack in confidence. Why wouldn't we let a guy like Mastro go? Lower power, speedy center fielders are all over the place. Then again, so are pitchers with career 6.0+ ERA....
    The obvious reason for a SP to be cut instead of Mastro is that we signed 2 Starters... At this point we unfortunately need a Mastro type on the MLB 25 man roster until the OF shakes out and hopefully shapes up!

  19. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by goulik View Post
    This was actually what I predicted to Happen with Hendricks. Send him back to AAA to convert to a reliever. Same for DeVries and PJ Walters whatever club they end up with next year. We gave them a shot and it's time to move on. Really hoping the same is not said of Mays and Gibson in a year or two...
    Gibson was a top 10-15 prospect in the 2009 draft. He fell because of a stress fracture in his forearm much to everyone's surprise. He pitched all of 51 innings in the majors the first year back from Tommy John. Ryan is not concerned, no reason we should be. Kind of like Ryan Eades first 15 innings in Rookie Ball. Much ado about nothing.

  20. #78
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    So... how long does the DFA process take? Is Hendriks by now cleared of waivers? Or, was the announcement that he'd been DFA'ed a signal that he had already cleared?

  21. #79
    Senior Member Double-A DJSim22's Avatar
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    I think this was an odd choice considering Mastro and Fryer as others have said. In the long term though, it really means nothing. This only shows how little value Hendricks has to the Twins.

  22. #80
    Do we need to clear a spot before the rule 5 draft?

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