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Thread: The Twins DFA Liam Hendriks

  1. #21
    Seems to me I remember when Hendricks was first sent down, both Gardy and Terry said he needed to work on "things" because he was fooling batters in AAA that didn't work in the Bigs. Never heard anymore about what that was, but just taking a cold look at his huge disparity in numbers from AAA to Big League starts...I'd say he never did what he was told or couldn't and they realized he was really no better than a AAAA pitcher so let's cut bait.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Double-A shs_59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtSchmidt11 View Post
    I guess I don't mind it at all. I mean, who's going to carry him on their 40? He hasn't even had moderate success in the bigs.
    The Houston Astros + about 25 other clubs.

    Would scoop up Hendriks; The 'stros in a jiffy.

    Hendriks will be claimed within 72 hours.

    I'm not happy with this move at all.
    Hendriks > than a lot of people .....

    Fryer, Kris Johnson, and about 3 others i would have taken off before Hendriks.
    Last edited by shs_59; 12-05-2013 at 08:20 PM.
    Top Twins prospects ? 1.Byron Buxton (OF-A+)
    2.Miguel Sano (3B-AA) 3.Alex Meyer (SP-AA) 4. Kohl Stewart (SP-RK) 5. Nick Gordon (SS-RK) 6. J.O. Berrios (P-A) 7. Josmil Pinto (C-AAA) 8. Eddie Rosario (2B-AA) 9. L. Thorpe (SP-RK) 10. Travis Harrison (3B-A) 11.Kennys Vargas (1B-A+) 12. Trevor May (SP-AA) 13. Jorge Polanco (2B-A) 14. Max Kepler (OF-A) 15. Miguel Sulbaran (SP-A) Just Missed:P Zach Jones, SS Aderlin Mejia, P Stephen Gonsalves, C Stuart Turner.

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  4. #23
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    This will probably be a lot of teeth gnashing over nothing, but it's just disappointing that a player who is still so young is being given up on in favor of guys far less likely to be part of the long-term plan. He's the kind of guy they need to keep giving a chance until the other young guys supplant him.

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  6. #24
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Colabello is still around? Fryer?
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  7. #25
    Senior Member Double-A shs_59's Avatar
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    RE: in reply to Doc Freiermuth's post above ^

    If the front office is already convinced Hendriks is a quad A (AAAA) pitcher, than

    Anybody below Meyer and maaaaaaybe Lewis Thorpe and Kohl Stewart in the minor league system can be kissed good-bye in 2-6 years. On waivers.

    I mean it might be an indictment on the coaching staff : R. Anderson, Mintz, Cuellar more than anything but Hendriks dominated not just low a and high a (which hardly matters) he was flat out stellar at times in AA and AAA.

    THAT in and of itself, suggests he should be a more than servicable starting pitcher, if

    1) Have the coaches that know how to utilize him
    &
    2) Said player stays healthy

    Based off his arsenal, and control, mound presence and all that.

    It was a long shot he was ever going to be more than a #3 starter......but HE SHOULD have been a decent #4 and I still think will be a #5 / #4 or at least a valuable swing-man... a la Swarzak.
    Top Twins prospects ? 1.Byron Buxton (OF-A+)
    2.Miguel Sano (3B-AA) 3.Alex Meyer (SP-AA) 4. Kohl Stewart (SP-RK) 5. Nick Gordon (SS-RK) 6. J.O. Berrios (P-A) 7. Josmil Pinto (C-AAA) 8. Eddie Rosario (2B-AA) 9. L. Thorpe (SP-RK) 10. Travis Harrison (3B-A) 11.Kennys Vargas (1B-A+) 12. Trevor May (SP-AA) 13. Jorge Polanco (2B-A) 14. Max Kepler (OF-A) 15. Miguel Sulbaran (SP-A) Just Missed:P Zach Jones, SS Aderlin Mejia, P Stephen Gonsalves, C Stuart Turner.

  8. #26
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    This seems vaguely reminiscent of a number of Joe Benson threads.

    I like the kid. I hope he makes it back to the Redwings.

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  10. #27
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    There are probably guys with less upside on the 40. He may have a Kevin Correia career in front him.

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  12. #28
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    I hope this thread doesn't blow-up like the one about Joe Benson! Seriously, the Twins have to cut bait on guys who don't succeed in the majors, there are just too many (and Oh how they have touted their MiLs) on their way up. Sometimes, throats have to be cut. I forgot about Kris Johnson--he will be extended opportunities to succeed at the ML level, quite likely right out of Spring Training. There just isn't any room for Hendriks--and I don't think there should be either!

  13. #29
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    This is very suprising especially considering he had an option left. He would have been much easier to sneak off the 40 man roster after the rule 5 draft when teams already have filled their open spots on the 40 man roster.

    While he struggled quite a bit starting how do they not move him off into a bullpen role & follow a path like Swarzak. Possible back end of the rotation guy with very good minor league numbers who struggles. Move him to the bullpen he gains 2-3 mph on his fastball all of a sudden you have a valuable guy out of the pen to give you innings.

    Fryer should have been moved, this is ridiculous. If he doesnt get claimed there must be a big injury red flag that popped up last year still lingering.

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  15. #30
    Initially I was surprised by this move. Then I thought about it, Liam will be 25 next season--he is 2-13 in MLB with an ERA of about 6. Not numbers that will lead to a lot of waiver claims (if any). I hope he finds a way to get back to the show somewhere but realistically don't expect it. If things go well several more guys will have to be cleared from the 40 man roster in 2014 to make room for Sano, Buxton, etc. I expect Collobello, Thielbar, etc. to not be here next year.

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  17. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by shs_59 View Post
    RE: in reply to Doc Freiermuth's post above ^

    If the front office is already convinced Hendriks is a quad A (AAAA) pitcher, than

    Anybody below Meyer and maaaaaaybe Lewis Thorpe and Kohl Stewart in the minor league system can be kissed good-bye in 2-6 years. On waivers.

    I mean it might be an indictment on the coaching staff : R. Anderson, Mintz, Cuellar more than anything but Hendriks dominated not just low a and high a (which hardly matters) he was flat out stellar at times in AA and AAA.

    THAT in and of itself, suggests he should be a more than servicable starting pitcher, if

    1) Have the coaches that know how to utilize him
    &
    2) Said player stays healthy

    Based off his arsenal, and control, mound presence and all that.

    It was a long shot he was ever going to be more than a #3 starter......but HE SHOULD have been a decent #4 and I still think will be a #5 / #4 or at least a valuable swing-man... a la Swarzak.
    There's a lot of room between Meyer and Hendriks. Hendriks was a nice story but he wasn't that good. My guess is that if the Twins signed a 25 yr old pitcher who managed a 5.7 k/9 rate (while not walking anyone) in AAA the fan base would not be happy.

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  19. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    I hope this thread doesn't blow-up like the one about Joe Benson! Seriously, the Twins have to cut bait on guys who don't succeed in the majors, there are just too many (and Oh how they have touted their MiLs) on their way up. Sometimes, throats have to be cut. I forgot about Kris Johnson--he will be extended opportunities to succeed at the ML level, quite likely right out of Spring Training. There just isn't any room for Hendriks--and I don't think there should be either!
    No, that's been the national media and us.

  20. #33
    It's all a numbers game. Who are the starters at Rochester next year? Gibson, Darnell Logan Darnell, Meyer, Albers....anyone else with mroe promise...not to mention free agent minor league signing guys et al. Plus Diamond, Deduno and Worley fighting it out at the major league level to take a starting job away from...remember...Duensing or Swarzak. It's all about numbers. The Twins may be doing him a favor letting him move on if someone gives him a chance. Otherwise, back to Australia.,
    Joel Thingvall
    www.thingvall.com
    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

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  22. #34
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shs_59 View Post
    RE: in reply to Doc Freiermuth's post above ^

    If the front office is already convinced Hendriks is a quad A (AAAA) pitcher, than

    Anybody below Meyer and maaaaaaybe Lewis Thorpe and Kohl Stewart in the minor league system can be kissed good-bye in 2-6 years. On waivers.

    I mean it might be an indictment on the coaching staff : R. Anderson, Mintz, Cuellar more than anything but Hendriks dominated not just low a and high a (which hardly matters) he was flat out stellar at times in AA and AAA.

    THAT in and of itself, suggests he should be a more than servicable starting pitcher, if

    1) Have the coaches that know how to utilize him
    &
    2) Said player stays healthy

    Based off his arsenal, and control, mound presence and all that.

    It was a long shot he was ever going to be more than a #3 starter......but HE SHOULD have been a decent #4 and I still think will be a #5 / #4 or at least a valuable swing-man... a la Swarzak.
    Yeah... This isn't true at all. Hendriks' stat line looked okay in AA/AAA, for sure... But not stellar. And then you look at his peripherals and say "ugh". He looked like he had real potential in 2011, striking out 8.0 per nine in AA. But then he floundered a bit in AAA, missing far too few bats. Guys who don't miss bats in the minor leagues are not automatically "serviceable starters" in MLB, no matter how few runs they allow. In fact, most of Hendriks' peripherals outside of ERA point to him floundering in a MLB rotation.

    I don't know how one would even begin comparing Meyer to Hendriks past "they throw with the same hand".

    It's disappointing that Hendriks was so bad in Minnesota. But that's what happens to guys with marginal stuff and why you should look past ERA (in most cases, I ignore it in a MiLB player) and try to gauge what stuff the pitcher has in his arsenal.

    And the higher Hendriks went, the more apparent it was that he didn't really have good stuff. I still think that Liam has a shot to be successful on a MLB roster and I'm not sold on the Twins giving up on him quite yet but given their current roster, somebody had to go. I'm not sure it should have been Hendriks but I'm not sure it shouldn't be, either.

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  24. #35
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    He had an option left, correct? So if he gets claimed the claiming team still has an option to send him to AAA? If that's the case I can't imagine he won't get claimed.

  25. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yeah... This isn't true at all. Hendriks' stat line looked okay in AA/AAA, for sure... But not stellar. And then you look at his peripherals and say "ugh". He looked like he had real potential in 2011, striking out 8.0 per nine in AA. But then he floundered a bit in AAA, missing far too few bats.
    Hendriks is a real lesson for those projecting pitching prospects right now. Young guy, relatively quick ascent, solid numbers in the minors through age 22 (comparable to Baker), then... nothing, really. No apparent injury, just couldn't succeed in MLB (or much lasting success at AAA, for that matter).

    Not a huge deal, although I almost certainly would have sacrificed someone else before him (Colabello?). He turns 25 in February, still has an option remaining. Baker didn't really show much hope in MLB until age 25, same for Swarzak (the latter after a shift to the pen). And not to make excuses, but 2002-2010 Twins prospects arguably didn't have to deal with quite the same negative environment as Hendriks the past few years -- a revolving door of catchers (Hendriks was at his worst pitching to Doumit and Butera, by far), questionable defense, etc.

    FWIW, despite his poor results thus far, Hendriks has been pretty much replacement level in MLB according to xFIP and by extension fWAR.

  26. #37
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    Here's Goldstein's write-up on Hendriks for the 2011 top 11 list:

    Year in Review: Nearly unknown entering the year, Hendriks was one of the best statistical performers in the minors, finishing the year with a 1.74 ERA and a strikeout-to-walk ratio of nearly nine to one.
    The Good: Even in a system loaded with control specialists, none can match Hendriks, who treats walks as if they're a criminal offense. He sits at 88-90 mph with his fastball while touching 92, and can mix in a slider, curveball, and changeup, all of which rate as average offerings. All of his pitches play up due to his ability to place them exactly where he wants them, and he mixes his pitches for maximum effectiveness.
    The Bad: Hendriks will never light up a radar gun, and on a pure scouting level he lacks a single true plus offering. He can morph his two breaking balls into an ineffective slurve at times. He's unproven stamina-wise, as he threw just over 100 innings last year due to an appendectomy, while back and knee issues have plagued him in the past.
    Ephemera: Of the 227 right-handed batters Hendriks faced in 2010, he walked a grand total of one.
    Perfect World Projection: A dependable and consistent starter, but one for the back of the rotation.
    Fantasy Impact: Don't expect much in this department.
    Path to the Big Leagues: Hendriks will face a big test in 2011 concerning how well his stuff and style will play at Double-A.
    ETA: 2013

    So, four average (or below, having seen him pitch) pitches and he's 25? And he's been knocked around in the bigs? Another blurb by Goldstein says that scouts felt that his extreme control/no stuff ways caught up to him in AAA. This is a pitcher I'm definitely OK with DFA'ing.

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  28. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_the_twins_fan View Post
    Mastroianni and Thielbar, maybe. But not the rest. Too much potential upside.
    Theilbar??? What did you not like about his 1.76 ERA in 49 appearances last year? Seems like we would want to see him actually give up some runs at the Major League level before we DFA him?

    I think this decision really comes down to options, or the lack thereof. Hendriks was going to have to earn a spot in the rotation out of ST or we would lose him anyway. Worley (also out of options) and Diamond both seem more likely than Hendriks to do that, and even they will not be favored over Gibson and Deduno heading in.

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  30. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsajsf View Post
    I think this decision really comes down to options, or the lack thereof. Hendriks was going to have to earn a spot in the rotation out of ST or we would lose him anyway.
    Hendriks still has one option year remaining, according to Berardino:
    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...iks-designated

  31. #40
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    THIS is why teams should be willing to trade prospects for proven players.......and yet, they keep not doing it. When they were in AA, if you had packaged Benson and Hendriks, you could have something. Now, you have nothing at all.
    Lighten up Francis....

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