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Thread: The Twins DFA Liam Hendriks

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    He will be claimed and optioned. Easily. Eric Fryer, though, Eric Fryer.

  2. #42
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    He will be claimed and optioned. Easily. Eric Fryer, though, Eric Fryer.
    Yeah, I don't get why he's on the 40 man.

    I understand the desire to move pitching for pitching on the 40 man but, as you said, Eric Fryer.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    He will be claimed and optioned. Easily. Eric Fryer, though, Eric Fryer.
    Hey, Fryer is my new favorite Twin!

    That said, if Doumit doesn't want to catch (or shouldn't be catching, take your pick), Fryer is just the not-unreasonable third catcher on the 40-man.

    Colabello or Mastro could have been better drops. Ibarra too (if possible, I know he was a recent add). A deal for Doumit or Duensing might not be bad either.

    Hope they still make a move in the Rule 5 -- we've got the perfect roster to audition such players, even if the odds of success are low.

  4. #44
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    Also, any reason the Nolasco/Hughes official announcements couldn't have been delayed further? Like, until after the meetings and Rule 5 draft? Even if it's a minor advantage, might have been nice to keep a little extra roster flexibility through those, then re-assess.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    THIS is why teams should be willing to trade prospects for proven players.......and yet, they keep not doing it. When they were in AA, if you had packaged Benson and Hendriks, you could have something. Now, you have nothing at all.
    Completely agree. I'll never understand why Ryan and the guys don't know enough to trade the prospects who are going to fail and only keep those who are going to succeed. IIRC we even had a tread on Benson where the board was certain he was nothing but a stiff. Why didn't we get a Jamie Carroll type return so we could use all that money on Tanaka's posting fee? Where is the accountability?
    Last edited by howieramone; 12-06-2013 at 12:05 PM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    I've been a big Hendriks supporter for several years. I'm not as pissed about this move as I was with Benson. They are completely different scenarios. There is a whole lot more talent on the 40 man now than there was then. Plus, the Twins aren't relying on an unproven rookie from AA over him.

    I don't think Hendriks was progressing. This might actually be the best thing for him. I doubt the Twins could trade him for anything. Hopefully he lands somewhere he can succeed.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Completely agree. I'll never understand why Ryan and the guys don't know enough to trade the prospects who are going to fail and only keep those who are going to succeed. We even had a tread on Benson where the board was 100% certain that he was nothing but a stiff.
    To be fair, Ryan never trades any prospects, ever. He could probably stand to take a few more risks in that regard -- Bill Smith actually made some good low-risk type moves with low-level prospects, filling in the MLB roster well. (Of course, don't let Bill Smith anywhere near your higher-level prospects!)

  8. #48
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    I wasn't talking just about the Twins...heck, I wasn't talking just about baseball. In every sport, teams undervalue (IMO) the proven track record of experienced MLB players, and over value the hope that a prospect/draft pick will bring. This is especially true of teams close to winning it all, who refuse to part with the future for a much more certain present.
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I wasn't talking just about the Twins...heck, I wasn't talking just about baseball. In every sport, teams undervalue (IMO) the proven track record of experienced MLB players, and over value the hope that a prospect/draft pick will bring. This is especially true of teams close to winning it all, who refuse to part with the future for a much more certain present.
    But you also might be over valuing other teams interest. I think the Twins are one of the few teams that aren't turned off by low strike out rates. In 2011, Hendriks krate fell off when he went to AAA and wasn't good in his cup of coffee with us. Other teams clearly would have scouted that and most probably thought he was, at best, a #5 pitcher or bullpen arm. No need to trade for that type of player. Even coupled with Benson, who never showed good plate discipline, I'm not sure a lot of teams would have wanted to trade value and give up two roster spots to those type of guys. Generally, when teams trade for prospects they want established prospects or lottery tickets or young guys not burning up option years. Rarely do you see a team trade for AAA level players with low floors and ceilings.

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  11. #50
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Completely agree. I'll never understand why Ryan and the guys don't know enough to trade the prospects who are going to fail and only keep those who are going to succeed. IIRC we even had a tread on Benson where the board was certain he was nothing but a stiff. Why didn't we get a Jamie Carroll type return so we could use all that money on Tanaka's posting fee? Where is the accountability?
    Like! I love hindsight moves like "we should have traded Hendricks when he had all the value (according to no one ever) for proven All-Stars when we had the chance, dangit..."

    Why not trade Parmalee and Hendricks and a bunch of other barely AAAA players for a proven vet. Terry Ryan should be fired because of that #stoppostingtradeideas

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Rarely do you see a team trade for AAA level players with low floors and ceilings.
    Off the top of my head, that's exactly how the Twins acquired Pavano and Rauch.

  13. #52
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    This was addition by subtraction. As a season ticket holder its a fantastic move since I'm guaranteed not to have to suffer through another one of his starts. He's never going to be a factor anywhere outside of maybe going to a giant park in the NL like San Diego. Even then he tops out as a 5th starter/fill in guy max.

    I'd say the same thing about Albers and Diamond. Finding 5th starters, while a Twins core competancy, is about the easiest thing in the game. There are probably 2-3 dozen 5th starters you could find in the middle of the season that would be just as good as Hendricks ever showed this team.

    The only people that should even care about this are the guys running the Rochester Redwings. He is a solid AAA arm and could help them win games.

  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I really hope he clears waivers. I'd much rather have dumped Johnson, but this strikes me as a move of frustration by the Twins. I think they've just run out of ways to try and get him to translate his minor league success to the bigs.
    I'd imagine Hendriks frustrated his coaches. But the Twins gather every important member of their field staff every fall and assess every player, so I doubt the decision was made out of frustration. Give them a little more credit than that.

  15. #54
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Like! I love hindsight moves like "we should have traded Hendricks when he had all the value (according to no one ever) for proven All-Stars when we had the chance, dangit..."
    How about this for not-hindsight: Ryan should trade May, Berrios, Danny Santana and a couple more prospects while they still have value.
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  16. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Off the top of my head, that's exactly how the Twins acquired Pavano and Rauch.
    Sure, of course and good point. Twins have shown an ability to make those type of trades (Butera for Suliman being another example). Benson and Hendriks could probably have been in those type of trades. I guess I was thinking that Mike was suggesting that the Twins should have traded Hendriks/Benson for a better than that type deal than that. Trading a AAA guy for a half season of a vet isn't what I was thinking he was talking about.

  17. #56
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    Hendriks was the epitome of a "Twins Way" pitcher: pounded the strike zone, hardly walked anybody, got the ball "put in play" with few pitches--yet he failed at the major league level. Does this action (DFA) serve as an admission that the theory of pitching/pitcher development used for Hendriks is/will be replaced by a new theory? I guess only time will tell.

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    But you also might be over valuing other teams interest. I think the Twins are one of the few teams that aren't turned off by low strike out rates. In 2011, Hendriks krate fell off when he went to AAA and wasn't good in his cup of coffee with us. Other teams clearly would have scouted that and most probably thought he was, at best, a #5 pitcher or bullpen arm. No need to trade for that type of player. Even coupled with Benson, who never showed good plate discipline, I'm not sure a lot of teams would have wanted to trade value and give up two roster spots to those type of guys. Generally, when teams trade for prospects they want established prospects or lottery tickets or young guys not burning up option years. Rarely do you see a team trade for AAA level players with low floors and ceilings.
    Again, I'm not talking about these guys in specific....I'm talking about teams and the value they place on prospects/draft picks in general. I don't know how to be more clear on that.
    Lighten up Francis....

  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Trading a AAA guy for a half season of a vet isn't what I was thinking he was talking about.
    Rauch was actually 1.5 seasons. And Pavano accepted arbitration so he was effectively 1.5 seasons, then re-signed reasonably beyond that too.

    Agreed it won't bring back stars or anything, but I think this is a good way to plug holes in the roster, obviously more useful on a contending team but not a bad idea to pursue all the time. Curious to see if TR can make this kind of move now.

  20. #59
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    How about this for not-hindsight: Ryan should trade May, Berrios, Danny Santana and a couple more prospects while they still have value.
    I'd be down with Berrios and Santana, though I think more value might be found by keeping May around for a bit. I don't think his value is terribly high right now... Though if another GM is interested, trade 'im.

  21. #60
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Rauch was actually 1.5 seasons. And Pavano accepted arbitration so he was effectively 1.5 seasons, then re-signed reasonably beyond that too.

    Agreed it won't bring back stars or anything, but I think this is a good way to plug holes in the roster, obviously more useful on a contending team but not a bad idea to pursue all the time. Curious to see if TR can make this kind of move now.
    forget the "now" part. TR never made this kind of a move. The much maligned Bill Smith made those moves... Ryan has a hard time trading prospects. He has traded young players who were at the MLB level, like Kielty but not prospects.
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