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Thread: Article: Early Signs Point to Unprecedented Aggressiveness

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star
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    But since we are talking who they should sign, this article explains my thinking on Ellsbury (excpet it is why the Cubs should sign him)....

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...acoby-ellsbury
    Lighten up Francis....

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    This forum is quickly becoming unreadable, Nick offers a reasonable and well thought out opinion and everyone has to rush in with the same old, tired, "Dohhh the Twins won't do anything, Ryan should be fired, derp" rhetoric that has been non stop. We get it, nobody likes coming off of three bad seasons, making thread after thread and post after post about how the Twins won't do anything, are a laughing stock etc does nothing to expand the conversation and frankly will do nothing but drive away anyone who would actually like to have a discussion about the Twins.

    It was this sort of daily garbage that kept me off the forums the majority of the second half of the season, and I know I wasn't the only one. This isn't directed at this thread as it hasn't gotten out of hand...yet.
    Dave, are you showing me the door?

  3. #23
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    You have to admit, it is kind of funny that this article was posted the day after the only "new news" was the Twins 2-year offer to Pelfrey. You've got to expect some critical comments from that!

  4. #24
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Well, I have trouble viewing their hesitance to give up a 2nd round pick to sign a guy to a long-term deal as a "smoking gun" of them back-pedaling. But to be honest, I don't remember the context of that quote. I'd be hesitant to give up a 2nd round pick for any of these guys, too. It's interesting that most rumors - not just local, but national - are not mentioning them makes me wonder if nationally other teams are hesitant, too. Anybody know when they need to decide to accept those qualifying offers?

    A month ago I was in the camp that thought the Twins would have another underwhelming offseason. They still might, but their efforts and expectations seem to have moved up considerably.

    I don't remember ever hearing the Twins linked consistently to this many of the top free agent pitchers. Of the top eight, they've been linked repeatedly to two of them (Nolasco, Arroyo), and a little to one more (Garza) and maybe yet one more (Tanaka), though I think that's the longest of shots. I'm interested to see what happens.

    And as Nick points out, the link to catchers is even more significant. Of the top five catchers on the market, they've been linked to three of them (Saltalamacchia, Pierzynski, Navarro), and they're the three remaining ones.

    Best of all, this stuff isn't coming from the Twins. They're not trumpeting who they're looking at to local media. These are coming from national reports and agents.

    Clearly, everyone gets to choose which way they want to play this. I can understand wanting to stay pessimistic with the hope of eventually being pleasantly surprised. But I think it's fair to say no matter how jaded you want to stay that there are a lot of positive signs early.

  5. This user likes John Bonnes's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Nick Nelson (11-27-2013)

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Well, I have trouble viewing their hesitance to give up a 2nd round pick to sign a guy to a long-term deal as a "smoking gun" of them back-pedaling. But to be honest, I don't remember the context of that quote.
    Here is the context I am aware of. On October 25th Doogie had a phone conversation with Terry Ryan and this was the exchange in regards to the 2nd round protection:

    Would you give up your 2nd round pick to sign a free-agent?If he's good.
    Really? That surprises me.
    Sure, if he's good. Depends on who it is and longevity and age and all that stuff.
    http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Q...r_topics102513

    About a month later Doogie posts this:

    The Twins have told agents that they don't plan on sacrificing their second-round pick in June's amateur draft to sign a free agent, despite a public declaration stating otherwise.
    http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/W...his_week112613

    Doogie is not a guy that rips the Twins so the fact that he feels this is a contradiction to the statement from October says a lot to me.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Well, I have trouble viewing their hesitance to give up a 2nd round pick to sign a guy to a long-term deal as a "smoking gun" of them back-pedaling. But to be honest, I don't remember the context of that quote. I'd be hesitant to give up a 2nd round pick for any of these guys, too.
    Agreed. I think TR probably meant he was hypothetically willing to give up that pick... just like he often says he is hypothetically willing to spend on free agents. I think his standards for free agents are difficult if not impossible to achieve.

  8. #27
    Twins fans have every right to be skeptical. To be paranoid. To fear the worst. Ryan has never done a thing to make us feel otherwise.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jharaldson View Post
    Here is the context I am aware of. On October 25th Doogie had a phone conversation with Terry Ryan and this was the exchange in regards to the 2nd round protection:



    http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Q...r_topics102513

    About a month later Doogie posts this:



    http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/W...his_week112613

    Doogie is not a guy that rips the Twins so the fact that he feels this is a contradiction to the statement from October says a lot to me.
    I think most people would say I'm not much of a front office supporter, but Ryan did say that on October 25th. At that time no one knew who would or would not be getting qualifying offers. For all we know Ryan told Wolfson this before Lincecum re-signed and he had his sights set on him. Perhaps there was a player he wanted who he was hoping wouldn't have his option picked up or perhaps he said this thinking the Twins might be able to make a play on McCann or Peralta and later realized those two would get rediculous offers.

    Still his original assertion that they wouldn't mind parting with the 2nd round pick always did seem as hollow as his assertion last year that they would go after really good free agent pitchers.

    Personally I do think this year is different, simply because I don't think legit sportswriters and agents both have ever credibly linked the Twins to top free agents before. Still pessimism seems to be justifyed as nothing has happened, thus we still have no track record to base positivity on. It's not like WE should have to prove ourselves to the Twins. THEY are the ones that rely on us, they need to prove themselves to us.

    I do get the frustration with all the negativity but since nothing has happned yet, every conversation basically boils down to "They will!" or "They won't!" It's kind of hard to fault those who are inclined to say "They won't" for not wanting sit out the conversations.

  10. #29
    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Anybody know when they need to decide to accept those qualifying offers?
    This year the deadline for accepting/rejecting a QO was Nov.11th. Teams have 5 days after the world series to make the offer, and players have 7 days after the offer has been made to make up their mind. Just like many of these types of things in the baseball world, teams and players waited until the last day to make their decision.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ng-offers.html

    Nick, good article. This has been an interesting off-season for the Twins so far, only in the fact that they're getting a lot of national press and getting connected to higher level free agents than previous years, as others have said. The child-like fan in me thinks that this time the Twins mean it, and they're going to sign some good starting pitching. They realist fan is a lot more skeptical. I also don't expect anything to happen until the winter meetings though, and I think there will still be plenty of worthwhile guys available during the meetings as well.
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

  11. #30
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Physics Guy's Avatar
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    Keep up the positivity Nick. I am hoping it comes to fruition. Only time will tell.

  12. #31
    I'm encouraged by the Twins being linked to the various catchers but excuse me if I'm underwhelmed by the pitchers. How about spending 15-17m/yr on a good pitcher instead of 15-20m/yr on two average/below average pitchers? I understand that they still might not land Garza or Jimenez but there's zero chance if they don't make an offer.
    The Twins are loaded with #5 starters and AAAA guys. They don't need two more #4s unless the goal is to win 73 games in 2014 and 2015.

  13. #32
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    So much for the Ted Lilly signing....He just retired. see www.mlbtraderumors.com for more

  14. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer 70charger's Avatar
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    So many people aren't reading the actual words that are right in front of them.

    There is absolutely zero inconsistency with saying both of the following things: 1) "We would give up our draft pick" and 2) "We do not plan to give up our draft pick."

    Clearly, it's not in the plan. Giving it up is not their first choice (duh). But I think it's also clear that if that's what it took to get them where they want to go this offseason, they'd in fact do it.

    "Would" and "will" are two very different concepts.

  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Well, I have trouble viewing their hesitance to give up a 2nd round pick to sign a guy to a long-term deal as a "smoking gun" of them back-pedaling. But to be honest, I don't remember the context of that quote. I'd be hesitant to give up a 2nd round pick for any of these guys, too. It's interesting that most rumors - not just local, but national - are not mentioning them makes me wonder if nationally other teams are hesitant, too. Anybody know when they need to decide to accept those qualifying offers?

    A month ago I was in the camp that thought the Twins would have another underwhelming offseason. They still might, but their efforts and expectations seem to have moved up considerably.

    I don't remember ever hearing the Twins linked consistently to this many of the top free agent pitchers. Of the top eight, they've been linked repeatedly to two of them (Nolasco, Arroyo), and a little to one more (Garza) and maybe yet one more (Tanaka), though I think that's the longest of shots. I'm interested to see what happens.

    And as Nick points out, the link to catchers is even more significant. Of the top five catchers on the market, they've been linked to three of them (Saltalamacchia, Pierzynski, Navarro), and they're the three remaining ones.

    Best of all, this stuff isn't coming from the Twins. They're not trumpeting who they're looking at to local media. These are coming from national reports and agents.

    Clearly, everyone gets to choose which way they want to play this. I can understand wanting to stay pessimistic with the hope of eventually being pleasantly surprised. But I think it's fair to say no matter how jaded you want to stay that there are a lot of positive signs early.
    I view the Twins willingsness to forgo the draftpick to mean if they can get a discounted player due to draft compensation then they would do it. a la Lohse. Otherwise whats the Twins incentive to forgo the draft pick? There are lots of pitchers to sign even if they signed Pelfry and Campuano that would still represent a huge upgrade to the rotation. (Signing just Pelfry and Campuano will upset lots of Twins fans but it would be an upgrade and that shows how many choices we have to get the job done). THere's probably 20-30 pitchers that would represent an upgrade available at this point.

  16. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    (Signing just Pelfry and Campuano will upset lots of Twins fans but it would be an upgrade and that shows how many choices we have to get the job done).
    If you want to argue that essentially one signing means an upgrade that's fine, but acting like re-signing Pelfry would be a component of that upgrade is odd.

  17. #36
    The way I look at it is that the Twins DO have to overpay someone -- who and how much is the question.

    They HAVE TO DO SOMETHING to excite the fan base. They have to do many things to give impression that they are putting a winning and competing team on the field.

    Putting butts in the seat is motivation #1.

    T.C. Bear run the bases for ALL fans? Naw. $1 Senor Smoke Nacho Night. Think Not. Free looks like beer but just colored water? Think fans will see thru this. Add 4-5 players for $50 million to the payroll and keep fingers crossed that no one gets injured and that they all have career years? That's something I might pony up season ticket monies (and not attend the All_Star Game) for.

  18. #37
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    See mlb traderumors.com post the Twins on verge of signing someone significant.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...t-signing.html

  19. #38
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    Mark my words they are gonna get a big fish this year. TR doesn't really have much choice but to get a good pitcher and spend some money because his boss is on record as saying spend away. Also the organization cannot take the PR hit of only using half of their available payroll with the All-Star game coming to town. They would have to deal with tons of media questions about getting a publicly funded stadium and then not using those resources to build a winning team. TR is finally backed into a corner where he has to spend. He needs a big signing to help the team and the perception that the Twins owner doesn't care about the team but only the money the team generates.

    I personally think he is being prudent waiting until the winter meetings because who knows what might be proposed. He could walk into a great deal. Best to leave the options open and see what comes their way. Just don't wait too long as everyone can be gone in the blink of an eye once the dominoes start falling.

  20. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    So many people aren't reading the actual words that are right in front of them.

    There is absolutely zero inconsistency with saying both of the following things: 1) "We would give up our draft pick" and 2) "We do not plan to give up our draft pick."

    Clearly, it's not in the plan. Giving it up is not their first choice (duh). But I think it's also clear that if that's what it took to get them where they want to go this offseason, they'd in fact do it.

    "Would" and "will" are two very different concepts.
    Solid reading skills.

  21. #40
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Same old Ryan

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