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Thread: Article: Twins Chasing Top Catcher Jarrod Saltalmacchia?

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Additionally it would be nice to see the Twins actually buying high on a player for once, instead of scraping the bottom of the barrel for guys way past their primes.

  2. #42
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    I'd rather spend $30 million on pitching. I feel Pinto and Hermann can handle the catching spot, even if Doumit is now a full-time DH. However, it fairly obvious we're not going to spend anywhere near $30 million pitching, so sure what the heck. I expect them to neither.

  3. #43
    I freaking hate this. It's nothing against Salty, per se - I actually liked him and followed him as a Texas prospect for fantasy baseball reasons. But barely over a year ago, the guy couldn't even crack the majors because of the yips:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big...urn=mlb,242145

    I don't buy him as a defensive catcher, and given his body type, I doubt he finishes even a 3-year deal as an "everyday catcher" (or 120-game catcher, since everyday catchers don't really exist).

    His power is almost exclusively from the left side, and good luck with that at Target Field as opposed to Fenway. Yes, he offers raw dumb power at the catcher position, which is "scarce", but not scarce enough to make this guy a $30 million signing. And it's made even more insanely stupid when you consider that a platoon of Pinto and Doumit (or go get a cheaper defensive catcher if you want another veteran option) could very possible offer the same production as Salty from both sides of the plate.

    This just reeks to me at the Twins having a distrust of young Latin players at the "smart positions", namely catcher, SS, and 2B. Josmil Pinto could be Yadier Molina and this team would still look for a more "trustworthy" veteran presence.

    And even if you don't agree with ANY of that, it will almost certainly eat up the vast majority of the FA budget, which NEEDS to be spent on starting pitching. Saying that we need 3 starters instead of just 1 isn't a viable argument at chipping away at the problem in any way possible.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoPilgrim View Post
    IIRC during the world series, weren't they talking some about his clubhouse leadership skills and ability to adjust to and work with a pitching staff? Given the young nature of our staff (and team in general once the kids replace the old guys) that in itself might be worth making this move.
    Are you thinking of David Ross? He started the last 2 or 3 games of the Series. The announcers said the Sox just liked the way he handled the pitchers better. I think Salty has more of a rep as an offensive catcher.

  5. #45
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    This just reeks to me at the Twins having a distrust of young Latin players at the "smart positions", namely catcher, SS, and 2B. Josmil Pinto could be Yadier Molina and this team would still look for a more "trustworthy" veteran presence.
    Give me a freaking break. Can we stop with these notions that the Twins are somehow racist or whatever?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    I freaking hate this. It's nothing against Salty, per se - I actually liked him and followed him as a Texas prospect for fantasy baseball reasons. But barely over a year ago, the guy couldn't even crack the majors because of the yips:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big...urn=mlb,242145

    I don't buy him as a defensive catcher, and given his body type, I doubt he finishes even a 3-year deal as an "everyday catcher" (or 120-game catcher, since everyday catchers don't really exist).

    His power is almost exclusively from the left side, and good luck with that at Target Field as opposed to Fenway. Yes, he offers raw dumb power at the catcher position, which is "scarce", but not scarce enough to make this guy a $30 million signing. And it's made even more insanely stupid when you consider that a platoon of Pinto and Doumit (or go get a cheaper defensive catcher if you want another veteran option) could very possible offer the same production as Salty from both sides of the plate.

    This just reeks to me at the Twins having a distrust of young Latin players at the "smart positions", namely catcher, SS, and 2B. Josmil Pinto could be Yadier Molina and this team would still look for a more "trustworthy" veteran presence.

    And even if you don't agree with ANY of that, it will almost certainly eat up the vast majority of the FA budget, which NEEDS to be spent on starting pitching. Saying that we need 3 starters instead of just 1 isn't a viable argument at chipping away at the problem in any way possible.
    Some corrections are needed.

    He has spent 3 seasons starting over half of the Red Sox games. Your link must be from >3 years ago.

    In his down seasons he still has put up a .740ish OPS.

    He doesn't have ridiculous home/away splits.

    Fenway is not an easy place for a lefty to hit either. It has a reputation as a hitter's park due to the Green Monster in left field.

  7. #47
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    If this was anyone other than Terry Ryan, I would think he was trying to keep the rumors out there to keep Saltalamachia's asking price high in hopes of team wanting to trade for Doumit instead. I could imagine a team loosing out on Salty and asking about Doumit....especially a team with a tight budget. They're not that far apart in quality, and Doumit's a third the price and a third of the years.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Doumit is not an everyday catcher....he's a borderline back up one at this point

  9. #49
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Heck... Ryan Doumit isn't even a catcher, period. That is, unless being able to physically put on a catcher's mitt is all it takes to qualify for that term.

  10. #50
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    To all those saying they need pitching, and should not sign a position player, they have the money to sign more than 1 player, more than 2 even.....this is not a zero sum game. And John, until they do go that many years and money, there is no reason to be surprised that they would....because they have not yet.

    I'd prefer a REALY big splash offensively and defensively myself, but I'd be good with this. There is no SS out there, that leaves C and OF (imo) on the non pitching side.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I'd prefer a REALY big splash offensively and defensively myself, but I'd be good with this. There is no SS out there, that leaves C and OF (imo) on the non pitching side.
    and DH.

    But is Saltalamacchia this guy? This season he hit .273/.338/.466. Last season a Plouffeian: .222/.288/.454. And his career numbers (including 2013) are: .246/.310/.428.
    And I assume that his left hand bat (he is horrible from the other side) will regress at Target Field.

    Allegedly he is great at pitch framing, but I wonder how much of this is the Red Sox jersey vs. Saltalamacchia...

    Is this kind of production worth $10M? Is this kind of production going to be much better than a mix of Herrmann and Pinto? $10M a year better?

    I doubt it.
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  12. #52
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    I have no idea if he's good or not......but the "is he worth $10MM" is only relevant if they are close to their budget in the coming 2-3 years.....if not, they can spend as much as they want on one player or three players or five players.

    Me? I would roll the dice on Pinto and a cheaper veteran, and go all in on a very good OF (offensivelly and defensivelly), along with two starting pitchers.
    Lighten up Francis....

  13. #53
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I have no idea if he's good or not......but the "is he worth $10MM" is only relevant if they are close to their budget in the coming 2-3 years.....if not, they can spend as much as they want on one player or three players or five players.

    Me? I would roll the dice on Pinto and a cheaper veteran, and go all in on a very good OF (offensivelly and defensivelly), along with two starting pitchers.
    OF is the last place this team should be spending money on FA wise at this point (unless you can get Choo on a friendly deal, which is highly doubtful)

    I know its pre-mature but I am confident in penciling in Buxton and Arcia for the OF for the next few years. That leaves one spot open, Willingham is a decent stop gap for 2014, and then you have Hicks & Rosario who could be up and ready for the start of 2015 as well.

    IF those guys bomb out this year or regress, then perhaps you go out and get an OF bat next year on the FA market (there are always plenty of OF's in the FA market)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Pinto has been in the Twins Organization for 8 years. They may do something you do not personally agree with, but it won't be stupid. Sharing duties with the top remaining free agent catcher instead of throwing him to the wolves makes a lot of sense. IMO Salty and Pinto helps make our favorite team, strong up the middle.
    And weak on the mound. Every dime that goes into a catcher with sporadic offensive production won't be going to upgrade the pitching staff.

    Why do you say any given move by the Twins won't be stupid? They aren't infallible, they've made numerous stupid decisoins over the years just like every other club. In fact most decisions they make, including ones that you, I or any other fan endorses at the time, has the potential to look stupid a short while later.

  15. #55
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    And weak on the mound. Every dime that goes into a catcher with sporadic offensive production won't be going to upgrade the pitching staff.
    Salty's numbers haven't been sporadic at all the past 3 years, I am not to concerned at this point how he was hitting when he was 22, 23 and 24.

    Assuming last year was an aberration, you can still expect him to put up a .740 OPS which I am pretty sure is well within the top 10 of catchers year in and year out.

    The Twins can spend $10 mil on a catcher and still have plenty of money to sign pitchers in 2014 and 2015. Frankly, the Twins aren't going to go sign 3-4 legit starting pitchers this off season and it isn't feasible. At some point they have to count on a couple guys like Meyer and Gibson moving forward.

  16. #56
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    This discussion is moot, in 2011 Terry wanted to swap out players for lesser players and lower paydays, He did , he had a plan and he targeted those players ...in 2012 we heard the team was in on several players and nothing was done except over paying for K.C. Agian this year we have heard we are in on Tanaka,Haren,Arroyo,2 Santanas and Salty, along with several others. Untill the contracts signed it is all just smoke .

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    OF is the last place this team should be spending money on FA wise at this point (unless you can get Choo on a friendly deal, which is highly doubtful)

    I know its pre-mature but I am confident in penciling in Buxton and Arcia for the OF for the next few years. That leaves one spot open, Willingham is a decent stop gap for 2014, and then you have Hicks & Rosario who could be up and ready for the start of 2015 as well.

    IF those guys bomb out this year or regress, then perhaps you go out and get an OF bat next year on the FA market (there are always plenty of OF's in the FA market)
    Except that of the players left, the safest and best from an impact perspective are OFers....and with this staff, they need defense and offense. Sign a legit OF, move Willingham to DH, and you've fixed two problems. but, I know most don't agree. If there was a SS that was good to great out there, that's where I'd spend the money....but there isn't.
    Lighten up Francis....

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    This discussion is moot, in 2011 Terry wanted to swap out players for lesser players and lower paydays, He did , he had a plan and he targeted those players ...in 2012 we heard the team was in on several players and nothing was done except over paying for K.C. Agian this year we have heard we are in on Tanaka,Haren,Arroyo,2 Santanas and Salty, along with several others. Untill the contracts signed it is all just smoke .

    I'm a cynic about TR's willingness to spend money, but I think you are wrong.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  19. #59
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Salty's numbers haven't been sporadic at all the past 3 years, I am not to concerned at this point how he was hitting when he was 22, 23 and 24.
    Past 3 years:

    Saltalamacchia: .235/.288/.450 95 OPS+ (2011), .222/.288/.454 97 OPS+ (2012), .273/.338/.466 118 OPS+ (2013); 3 seasons average: .244/.306/.457 104 OPS+

    Player X: .238/.305/.392 91 OPS+ (2011), .235/.301/.455 106 OPS+ (2012), .254/.309/.392, 94 OPS+ (2013); 3 seasons average: .243/.305/.414 98 OPS+

    Player X is a year younger than Saltalamacchia. Saltalamacchia does have better SLG (and pretty much identical BA and OBP), but his SLG is park-factor based as seen by the OPS+. Saltalamacchia is slightly better than player X who is one year younger.

    If Saltalamacchia is worth a 3/30M contract, how much should one sign player X for? 3/24M fair just based on the (unbiased) numbers? I think so if Saltalamacchia goes for that much.

    Figure out who player X is and then based on the numbers and your personal bias against that player, figure out whether Saltalamacchia is worth that much. Hint: Player X is a Twins' player.
    Last edited by Thrylos; 11-25-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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  20. #60
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Every dime that goes into a catcher with sporadic offensive production won't be going to upgrade the pitching staff.
    This is true, but you're assuming the Twins will spend every available dime on pitching. Even if they were willing to sign pitchers until they reach their budget, which they probably aren't, there's likely to be some extra money around to improve other areas.

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