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Thread: LHP Pedro Hernandez signed with the Rockies

  1. #41
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    The trade of the teams best starter is small stuff?
    For that year Diamond was the best starter on the team based on performance for that year.
    In regards to trading the "top" starter being small stuff, would trading any of the starters off last year's team not named Gibson be much more than that?
    Last edited by The Wise One; 11-17-2013 at 06:23 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Well here's why I hated it:

    http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=...-Liriano-Trade

    My primary criticism was on the timing. When the Liriano trade was made, he was the best remaining arm available, had been really, really good for two months, but his last start had been a clunker. But he had one more start before the deadline and the Twins traded him within 24 hours of it. Why not wait until the next start?

    It it wasn't because the offer was so compelling. At the time we knew what these guys were and they were just that. For that matter they weren't even far enough from the majors to project any real career. They were just two AAA guys with no future other than eating service time.

    It felt like Ryan panicked.
    This is sugarcoating it. Liriano had been terrible for 1.5 yrs before putting together a solid 1.5 month stretch. And then he was terrible again after the trade. Waiting an extra start wasn't going to bring in a better offer.

  3. #43
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    This is sugarcoating it. Liriano had been terrible for 1.5 yrs before putting together a solid 1.5 month stretch. And then he was terrible again after the trade. Waiting an extra start wasn't going to bring in a better offer.
    Terrible doesn't quite cover it. You could argue he was one of the worst starters in baseball (among those who didn't get cut or demoted) for that year and a half. You could make a really strong case for it.

    Ryan can, and has, and will make many mistakes. But dumping Liriano isn't on that list.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 11-17-2013 at 10:20 PM.

  4. #44
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Really? Are you one of the ones that got upset when the Twins accepted cash for Jamey Carroll rather than a PTBNL? Maybe it's my business background, but I don't sweat the small stuff.
    Yes, really. Indifference from a fan base is bad. It's hard to sell tickets to a fan base that has lost interest.

    Maybe it's my military background, but I've often found attention to small details one key factor in determining success or failure. Although, in this case, I think one could make the case that an organization desperate for starting pitching dumping one who immediately goes 16-8 with a 3.02 ERA and earns a few CYA votes along the way is not properly categorized as "small stuff" to begin with.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  5. #45
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Although, in this case, I think one could make the case that an organization desperate for starting pitching dumping one who immediately goes 16-8 with a 3.02 ERA and earns a few CYA votes along the way is not properly categorized as "small stuff" to begin with.
    Except that he didn't immediately go 16-8 with a 3.02 ERA - he went 3-2 with a 5.40 ERA and a 1.518 WHIP with Chicago last year - and ended up in their pen at least once too because of ineffectiveness.

    Time will tell whether the 2013 season is another blip on the Liriano radar that quickly fades into mediocrity (like 2010) or is the start of sustained success.

    In any case, it wasn't going to happen here.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    For that year Diamond was the best starter on the team based on performance for that year.
    In regards to trading the "top" starter being small stuff, would trading any of the starters off last year's team not named Gibson be much more than that?
    Trading Liriano would have been bigger news than trading anyone from last year's rotation not named Gibson due to Liriano's name value and the fact that he is the only pitcher the Twins have had since Santana was moved that had the pitches and make up to be higher than a #3 starter.

    Still, even if the Twins had traded Correia or Pelfrey last year, it wouldn't have been "small stuff." Unless the team is dumping a utility player or extra bullpen arms, I don't think moving anyone from the 25 man roster is a small move.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    It's ok to admit it was a poor decision to trade him for nothing before at least exploring an extension. It was.

    Just like its ok to look back on the Hardy deal, releasing Ortiz, and other ill advised personnel moves made, in the hopes that maybe they'll not be repeated.
    I couldn't read " Hardy deal" and "ill advised" without having the gut reaction that you are being far too kind. The Twins have made some bone-headed personnel moves, but that one still makes me want to type words that that would get me banned.

    We finally had an above-average SS, and management didn't even realize it. Instead of looking to extend him, they dumped him for garbage. (Just to clarify - Mrs Hoey, in the unlikely event you're reading this, yes, I called your son garbage. I only did so because I didn't want to use the words that would get me banned that I mentioned in the previous paragraph.)

    I at least understood the Ortiz move at the time. I knew he had some disagreement with the coaching staff, but I had no idea he could be that good.

  8. #48
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    ok, do we really think that Chicago was going to give up something more for Liriano? Do we think that he was going to stay had he not been traded? I'm skeptical either way.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    ok, do we really think that Chicago was going to give up something more for Liriano?
    They didn't have to give up more. The Twins just needed to get whatever the equivalent value was in non 40-man roster players.

  10. #50
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    They didn't have to give up more. The Twins just needed to get whatever the equivalent value was in non 40-man roster players.
    I get your point, but it takes 2 to trade, and it's quite possible that those options weren't on the table.

  11. #51
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I liked it when the Twins acquired Hardy and was disappointed when they traded him, but his performance in his only year with the Twins wasn't above average. He has absolutely found a home in Baltimore and has been one of the best shortstops in the AL. On Liriano, what remained of the fan base was completely fed up with his performance. Minnesota seems to be in a rut right now--they hold on to too many guys for too long--but when they let one go he thrives.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think far too often we assume that a player's performance one year would've been the same regardless of where he played. It's too hypothetical to be said with certainty.
    I agree. Liriano would have just laid another egg here, but it's frustrating that our coaches...cough...Andy.. didn't fix him when they had ample time. I was actually hoping he'd come back in the offseason. Would have been nice to have one pitcher who at least has some potential to be good. As for Pedro Hernandez, good riddance. I couldn't stand him as a Twin, but it'll be much more easier to root for him when he's with the Rockies.
    Last edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse; 11-23-2013 at 11:28 PM.

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