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Thread: Matt Garza?!

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I can't think of an offseason where the Twins have been rumored nationally to be anywhere near this aggressive, especially with bigger names. Ryan isn't afraid to be aggressive early in the free agent period for pieces he thinks he needs - overpaying Jamey Carroll before 2012 comes to mind - but never with players of this caliber and price tag.

    Literally just a week ago, I would've said that the chances that the Twins sign any pitcher for more than $10M/year were less than 5%. Now I feel its probable. There are just too many rumors and discussions with some of the better names on this market. I don't know why the change in direction and philosophy, but whatever the reason, I'll take it.
    I need the like button back

    Last year the Twins weren't really rumored to be in on anyone. Ryan mentioned not being able to give money away and the only big signing was KC, who supposedly had more money on the table. The Twins appear, at the very least, to be more prepared this year. Perhaps they are taking the fans advance and actually leaking some of this stuff out this year that they normally did not.... who knows, but right now, I tend to think the are going to walk away with one decent pitcher this offseason, perhaps two.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Boy, I'd be really surprised if this was true. And this is from someone who really studied the Twins revenues, both shared and local. Do you have a source or link or something for that?
    my recollection from past reading and from Forbes. The number stayed positive after 2004. I am sure some place has the stats.
    Remember the Pohlads have owned the team since 84. 88 and 92 were the only high attendance years in the first 16 years. Local media has never been a high revenue source for the Twins. It has been a more recent phenomenon for there to be a large national contract.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Agreed, but that speaks to my point. They need to maintain the paying fanbase they have. If they show apathy to their own product to the point that they start losing season ticket-holders, we will probably see them start shrinking the payroll to match it.

    It's important, and I think this forum is emblematic of this, that the team show their fans that they do understand that their approach to the offseason has to change. People are clamoring for it and watching closely. The Twin's investment in their own product has to match the one the community has given and is giving. If it doesn't they're going to start shrinking the paying fanbase. And, as a die-hard fan who is excited about the potential of the future, I don't want to see the shrinking that will hurt our future payroll.

    So good news that they showing impressive aggression early on.
    If the aggressive approach leads to a .500 kind of team with no large increase in the fans, what message with the fans have sent the Twins? Past history says that improving to .500 does not draw spectators.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Literally just a week ago, I would've said that the chances that the Twins sign any pitcher for more than $10M/year were less than 5%. Now I feel its probable. There are just too many rumors and discussions with some of the better names on this market. I don't know why the change in direction and philosophy, but whatever the reason, I'll take it.
    John, are you actually reading these reports?

    From MLB Trade Rumors on Garza: "However, as of this morning, Minnesota hasn't made a formal offer to any of its free agent targets."

    Latest on Nolasco: "The club has yet to make a formal offer to Nolasco, tweets ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick, who says that the Twins are "not as far along with Ricky Nolasco as multiple reports have indicated."

    I think there is still a very, very real chance the Twins get shut out in these pursuits. Remember, I don't think TR has ever won the bidding for anyone before -- his only signings have been cheap low-interest guys. Even if there's suddenly a will, there may not be a way to make it happen yet.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If the aggressive approach leads to a .500 kind of team with no large increase in the fans, what message with the fans have sent the Twins? Past history says that improving to .500 does not draw spectators.
    I'm not sure what past history you are looking at but this isn't really true. Teams that are horrifically awful (like the current Twins) see their attendance nosedive. The Twins fanbase have so far kept coming to the games but that has more to do with a decade of winning teams, a new stadium and the upcoming All-Star game. If the Twins continue to be horrifically awful for a couple more seasons then attendance will nosedive like the late 90's.

  6. #46
    The pain is that agents are using the Twins words about being in the marketplace against them in hopes of actually stabilizing offers or maybe even driving up prices. Of, perhaps, every agent and pitcher can leak the rumor that the Twins are interested and pursuing them, knowing that ultimately it won't happen.
    Joel Thingvall
    www.thingvall.com
    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

  7. #47
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If the aggressive approach leads to a .500 kind of team with no large increase in the fans, what message with the fans have sent the Twins? Past history says that improving to .500 does not draw spectators.
    I'm not sure that you are right about the past but even if you are, I'm not sure that you can draw any conclusions from it at this point. A jump from 95 losses for 3 consecutive years to near .500 would be a huge jump in the possibility of actually seeing the Twins win on any given day. That, together with the hope provided by the farm system, the desire by many fans to see the Twins actually be competitive in the free agent market AND a ballpark that still has a bit of the "new & shiny" attached is very different from any small improvements they may have seen in the Metrodome days. Also, at this point, fans are still close enough to "winning seasons" to remember them -- the longer it goes on with a desolate (more than 90 loss) record, the harder that will get to remember. So there is a premium on showing significant improvement quickly and I have a lot of faith that if they do so, it will put b*tts in the seats and help stabilize their sliding TV ratings.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If the aggressive approach leads to a .500 kind of team with no large increase in the fans, what message with the fans have sent the Twins? Past history says that improving to .500 does not draw spectators.
    This has already been answered well, but I'll put one more slight twist on what kab and JB already did such a nice job with:

    The Twins aren't looking to make a "large increase" in fan base and I never argued any such thing. What they need to do is maintain their current season ticket rates. (I've said as much in my posts, this isn't new) What we don't want is nosediving attendance right when our young players are coming up and most all of us agree will be an opportune time to supplement them in the open market.

    The stadium's luster and the all-star game's pull are gone after this year, if the Twins field another team this god-awful to watch - there could be some serious ramifications. And all of us diehards should be afraid of that because it takes time to bring people back and rebuild revenues after you burn those bridges.

  9. #49
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If the aggressive approach leads to a .500 kind of team with no large increase in the fans, what message with the fans have sent the Twins? Past history says that improving to .500 does not draw spectators.
    Personally... I believe that getting back to .500 is getting back into contention.

    Once in contention... Anything can happen... If anything can happen... Excitement builds.

    Being out of it in July again is going to keep digging that hole that the youngsters will have to climb out of.

    Speaking for myself... I am for a balls out push to mediocrity. I just don't see any big tickets FA's who can do it.

    The 2012 team was inexperienced and it had no power... No speed... Set records in strikeouts and the pitching ranked last... And we had suspect defense at 3B, C with Doumit and the outfield corners.

    That's a bad combination of things.

    On top of that... I don't recall seeing pitchers pitch hard inside, catchers plowed at home, double plays broken up, Mauer stretching a double to a triple or Plouffe leaving his feet at the hot corner.

    So you can add uninspired play to the 2012 soup of defensive holes, no power, speed, pitching, youth and not making contact when you swing.

    The organization has decided not to change coaching... Well... then they have to change players.

    Mediocre or Bust!!!!! I Cry... Charge!!! Who's with me?
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 11-16-2013 at 10:38 AM.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  10. #50
    Super Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Mediocre or Bust!!!!! I Cry... Charge!!! Who's with me?
    Meh. That's the best mediocre answer I can come up with.
    "Peace, love, dope! Now get the hell out!"
    Resistance is Sisyphusian!

  11. #51
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Meh. That's the best mediocre answer I can come up with.
    Ok... It's all in the inflection.. MEHHHHHHHH!!!

    Make it mighty.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Meh. That's the best mediocre answer I can come up with.
    Yeah, me too. I'm with ya, Brian, unless something else comes up. Mehhhh.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Yeah, me too. I'm with ya, Brian, unless something else comes up. Mehhhh.
    Cool... I was starting to feel like Will Ferrell running down the street in Old School.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 11-16-2013 at 01:55 PM.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  14. #54
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    JB-Iowa....good post, and thank you for keeping it clean by asterisking the u in b*tts!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Personally... I believe that getting back to .500 is getting back into contention.

    Once in contention... Anything can happen... If anything can happen... Excitement builds.
    ... Well... then they have to change players.

    Mediocre or Bust!!!!! I Cry... Charge!!! Who's with me?

    Right on! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?

  16. #56
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    If the Twins manage to sign Garza and one of Kazmir/JJ/Arroyo/Nolasco (or even Hughes), I think that could have a pretty dramatic effect on their competitiveness.

  17. #57
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    Yes sir , after 20 years maybe he has learned his lesson =) we can hope.Right?
    Off subject,was nice to see May have a nice AFL, and maybe has pitched himself into a looksy for the Rotation ,you know if we dont sign tanaka,garza either santana or jimenez

  18. #58
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    The thing that boggles my mind is that Garza will only be 30 in a week or so.

    It's easy to forget how young he was when he was first in a Twins uniform. Honestly, without looking it up, I would have said he was 34 or so.


    And one more thing, I was going to bump the "Target Field Library Thread" but decided just to add this here. If there is anything I'm encouraged about this off-season, its the repeated rumors that the Twins are looking to change the clubhouse atmosphere. Thank Heavens!!

  19. #59
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AM. View Post
    Right on! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?
    Right On!!! Right back at you!!!

    That's exactly the attitude that gets you to turn Flounder's car into an "Eat Me" cake slash death mobile float. And it leads to a Knocked over a fire hydrant... fallen telephone pole... Marbles thrown into the path of enemies... Uptight women losing their clothes... Smoke Bombs tossed into crowds... Windows Smashed... Town Leaders choking each other with their bare hands... Marching Bands being led helplessly into corners and Kevin Bacon yelling all is well!!!

    At the very least... Someone has their parade ruined...

    And... just maybe while we are sitting alone in our bedrooms reading through all of our data of complex baseball stats looking for an answer... A pretty girl will unexpectedly fly through our window and we say "Thank You God"!!!

    Does this team have a Bluto or D-Day on it? Does the Front Office have an Otter? We need some right now!!! Otherwise Young Flounder and Pinto are just going to learn how to keep getting picked on!!!
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  20. #60
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AM. View Post
    Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?
    Germans?

    loss_for_words.jpg

    Forget it, he's rolling.

    / from the hit movie, Animal Castle

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