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Thread: Article: Short Memory: Twins Sign Jason Bartlett

  1. #21
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with the signing.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm not sure how a minor league deal almost a decade later fixes the fact that Gardy chose Castro over him. I'm not sure anything fixes that stupidity.
    I distinctly remember Gardy having mixed emotions over Bartlett being included in that trade. There is no stupidity to fix.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star
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    It would be a mistake to move Rosario if he can field the position.

    It is unlikely that Dozier's HR/OFB rate of 14.4% is sustainable. It is more than double his rate as a minor leaguer. The difference is 10 home runs.

    It would be wise to see if Dozier's power is really a new skill before moving Rosario.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I distinctly remember Gardy having mixed emotions over Bartlett being included in that trade. There is no stupidity to fix.
    Agree. A team looks for long-term stability at short and Bartlett was becoming that guy. One of Smith's biggest mistakes.

    If he's healthy I have no problem with Bartlett coming back as a utility guy, late inning SS/3B type.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    I distinctly remember Gardy having mixed emotions over Bartlett being included in that trade. There is no stupidity to fix.
    As I referenced with Castro - it had nothing to do with the trade and everything to do with indefensible decisions to send Bartlett to AAA in 2005 and 2006 in favor of giving several hundred at-bats to Juan Castro.

    All because of some bizarre, as-yet-undefined lack of "middle infield leadership" that has hurt this team on more than one occasion.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    I would rather watch the 2002 (or 2006 Twins) at their present age than the crap they've run out there the last three seasons. Bring on Johan!

  7. #27
    Senior Member Triple-A Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Not sure i like him better than Pedro.

    I think PF is a breakout candidate next season.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    As I referenced with Castro - it had nothing to do with the trade and everything to do with indefensible decisions to send Bartlett to AAA in 2005 and 2006 in favor of giving several hundred at-bats to Juan Castro.

    All because of some bizarre, as-yet-undefined lack of "middle infield leadership" that has hurt this team on more than one occasion.
    So you're complaining about how he was handled before he became a star on our favorite team. It was indefensible, bizarre, and as-yet-undefined? All's well that ends well.

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm not sure how a minor league deal almost a decade later fixes the fact that Gardy chose Castro over him. I'm not sure anything fixes that stupidity.
    I never claimed that it had; however, it does put to bed the notion that Gardy choose Castro based on some personal beef with Bartlett. Again, I'm not defending in any way the Castro move.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    I never claimed that it had; however, it does put to bed the notion that Gardy choose Castro based on some personal beef with Bartlett. Again, I'm not defending in any way the Castro move.
    Whose to say whatever personal beef it was hasn't just died out over time? Or that Gardy didn't get much of a say in the matter?

    It's clear Gardy didn't like something about Bartlett - and it couldn't have had any rational basis in talent or ability to play the game.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    So you're complaining about how he was handled before he became a star on our favorite team. It was indefensible, bizarre, and as-yet-undefined? All's well that ends well.
    Bartlett never starred for us. He finally got an opportunity and then was foolishly dealt. And yes, I'm responding to a post in reference to Gardy's treatment of him before he got regular playing time. In particular, the indefensible decision to send him down and play Castro. This hasn't been that difficult a train of discussion to follow.

  12. #32
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    It's clear Gardy didn't like something about Bartlett - and it couldn't have had any rational basis in talent or ability to play the game.
    That's a pretty extreme take for having such certitude. But this stuff happened years ago, so it's best to just drop it.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    so it's best to just drop it.
    Like this, right?

    kz12u.jpg
    There isn't enough defense on the planet to justify giving 500+ PA to a guy who can barely OPS .600.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCTF View Post
    Like this, right?

    kz12u.jpg
    I so want to like this. And I still harbor so much bitterness for being subjected to this.

  15. #35
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCTF View Post
    Like this, right?

    kz12u.jpg
    I don't care if it's already been quoted once, that's not enough.

    Now all we need is an appearance by Shores.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  16. #36
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    The Gardenhire-Bartlett thing was bizarre.

    From the outside (and we were all outside at that point in their history) it sure seemed like Gardenhire just didn't trust Bartlett and he had some quotes about "wanting him to take charge of the infield" and such that gave the opinion that there was something vague and indeterminate about it. If I remember correctly, Bartlett didn't get to play regularly until Ryan actually traded Castro away.

    But from the moment the Young/Garza-Bartlett trade was made, Gardenhire let everyone know that he really liked Bartlett. Was he showing tough love early? Was he trying to get a laid back kid to be more assertive? Was he just too enamored with veterans? Or was there something else we didn't know about?

    I have no idea. But I think we misread that situation originally. I don't think the "about-face" his a manipulation. I just don't know why he didn't play Bartlett over Castro more often.

  17. #37
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    From the outside (and we were all outside at that point in their history) it sure seemed like Gardenhire just didn't trust Bartlett and he had some quotes about "wanting him to take charge of the infield" and such that gave the opinion that there was something vague and indeterminate about it.
    The word I remembered from that era was "consistency", as in, the knock was on his defense. Here is a 2005 article that seems to mesh with that:

    http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/...tent_id=965555

    But I also found a 2006 article that had Gardenhire singing "Bart"'s praises for his defense, so if Gardy was sour on him by the time of the trade, something had changed.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    But from the moment the Young/Garza-Bartlett trade was made, Gardenhire let everyone know that he really liked Bartlett. Was he showing tough love early? Was he trying to get a laid back kid to be more assertive? Was he just too enamored with veterans? Or was there something else we didn't know about?
    Maybe he was just being classy and professional with Bartlett on his way out the door, regardless of his personal opinions about the guy? Part of what makes the Twins such a respected organization?

    I still think Gardy gained a lot of power after TR left. Dealing Garza and Bartlett both in the same trade? What made those two expendable on a team that lacked infielders and was already set to deal their best starter (Santana)?

    If that isn't obvious enough for you, how about trading youngster Ramos for proven closer Capps? JJ Hardy dumped for nothing because he didn't have speed?

    Even if Gardy wasn't directly involved in these decisions, Bill Smith was thinking a little too much like Gardy in approaching these transactions, I suspect. Say what you will about TR, but the man doesn't do his manager too many favors.

    Now, what brings Bartlett back? Maybe the issues weren't that big of a deal, or didn't faze Bartlett too much. And if a SS is looking for an opportunity to prolong his career, there's probably no better place to come than Minnesota right now, especially if he indeed has family connections to our AAA town Rochester. Remember the Jacque Jones farewell tour?

  19. #39
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    Bartlett is 34 and hasn't had a good year since 2009. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a waste of time. It takes away at-bats and practice time from guys who might, possibly, help.

    Meanwhile, everyone seems to have forgotten about Eduardo Escobar, but he hit .307 in two months in Rochester and is hitting very well in winter ball. He may or may not have figured something out, but he's done enough to have earned a chance to show that he has. He certainly has a better chance of being a productive player in 2014 than Bartlett has.

  20. #40
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    A lot of people were complaining (with reason) last year because Hicks and Bensen got demoted/released, Mastro got hurt, and there was no centerfielder. If Escobar goes down, what's the plan? I see no problem with this signing- maybe he has something left and puts pressure on Escobar to perform, maybe someone gets hurt- I'm not quite ready to assume that we have too many players around.

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